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FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

thehill.com

231–240 of 417 posts

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#231

> In the US, there are more firearms than people. About one-third of all households have at least one firearm Nothing than 1) a total banning of sales, 2) a law that requires existing owners to return them for destruction, 3) 5 years jail minimum time for anybody even seen with one (and 20 years if they were involved in any criminal act while carrying it, regardless of the act), 4) and a mass confiscation campaign ca…

Basically mass incarnation?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#232
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has already made way for other nations to follow suit this year. We have a history with low gun violence, encryption or lack thereof had nothing to do with that.

Sure, but your low gun violence didn't just happen. People used to have guns, they liked their guns, but there were shootings. People including politicians realized they could do something about it. Some gun owners hated that, but shootings all but stopped. You're really the example that all "guns don't kill people" arguers hate having to try and explain away.

They didn’t “all but stop”. They’ve continued [1]. Why keep repeating The Australia Lie that anti-gun people love touting?

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Austral...

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#233
post #228
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Authorities want every house in America to be remodeled to include a second front door with a special government lock. They promise to only give police departments, contractors, and/or federal employees access to the single master key that can be instantly and easily copied and shared over the internet and opens every single house and business in America. Even if we trusted the government with this power, how could…

I think most Americans know that the government can quite easily enter anyone’s home if they want to.

Generally, not legally without a warrant, which can be a good enough deterrent. Or at least should be if our legal process is working at all.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#234
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term that you're quoting the US Congress definition of is "mass killing".

If someone commits a mass killing with a gun, then it becomes a mass shooting. Frankly speaking, it's not clear what this thread is about. According to social constructivism, social reality might change by re-defining terms like "mass shooting", but according to my sense of reality the number of victims doesn't change at all. I can also see no reason why Wikipedia shouldn't base their lists on the 'most official' ter…

> If someone commits a mass killing with a gun, then it becomes a mass shooting.

Yes. This sub-thread started with someone else arguing that one of the entries on the list of "mass shootings" did not deserve to be on the list.

If the argument is "it must involve deaths to be a mass shooting", that incident also involved zero deaths (and zero innocent civilian injuries).

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The second thing is to log iMessage data on the server-side (since it has to be decrypted at some point). iMessage is end-to-end encrypted, so that's also not an option. Apple would have to inject a key they controlled into a user's list of device keys. (Which they can do, and the UI doesn't notify users if it were to happen.)

Thanks for the clarification. I guess iCloud backups could then be a viable option then?

Yes, if iCloud backups are enabled, Apple does then have the keys required to decrypt backed-up iMessage messages.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#236
post #148
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s this for provocative: if you don’t have a right to a 2nd Amendment, what right do you have to encrypt? After all, encryption has long been classified as munitions by the US government.

Encryption is no longer generally classified as munitions in the US. Here's a link to start with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

yes well... that was a consequence of the last failed attempt to create backdoors with clipper thankfully.. but you could argue encryption is a munition in practice if not by current statute. For instance one could argue without encryption the revolutionary war would have had a different outcome as it enabled Washington’s network of spies to tip the balance in favor of the revolutionaries. But more importantly the point I was tongue in cheek trying to make is twofold: 1) for a right to encryption to exist, an individual must be sovereign. For an individual to be sovereign they must have a right to bear arms. And 2) while there are numerous rights to privacy enumerated in the bill of rights there is not one that I know of that gives an explicit right to encrypt. But if one were to argue encryption as munition... then you’d have the 2nd amendment to support the right.. which as I stated is kind of provocative and that’s all I was trying to be.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#237
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has vast and currently unimpeachable rights to weaponry. There is a huge swath of policy space between that and banning gun ownership. We can reduce gun ownership, trafficking and weapon deadliness a thousand different ways while not adversely impacting legitimate usage. Universal background checks, limiting purchase frequency, banning 100-round barrels, increasing liability for dealers.

The trouble with those policies (aside from 100-round barrels... I have no idea what that means, and I don’t think you do either) is that they’re often-mentioned, but people forget to ask the question, “Have these policies actually improved anything where they’ve been implemented?” Many of the recently-publicized shootings in the US have occurred in California, which has some of the most strict firearms laws in the n…

> Many of the recently-publicized shootings in the US have occurred in California, which has some of the most strict firearms laws in the nation

If California's laws prevented some but not all of the shootings then it still should be considered a success.

> Why guns are the hot-button issue and heart disease isn’t plastered over the media 24/7? I

I don't think this is honest. If your mother and father died in a mass shooting you would not feel the same as if they had died of heart disease. To treat the trauma of violent deaths differently from illness/disease is very natural.

Rationally, if heart disease suddenly killed tens of people in a single event you had better believe it would make headlines.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#238

> In the US, there are more firearms than people. About one-third of all households have at least one firearm Nothing than 1) a total banning of sales, 2) a law that requires existing owners to return them for destruction, 3) 5 years jail minimum time for anybody even seen with one (and 20 years if they were involved in any criminal act while carrying it, regardless of the act), 4) and a mass confiscation campaign ca…

Basically mass incarnation?

9HZZRfNlpR says> "Basically mass incarnation?"

"mass incarnation"?

Like

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.dL31G5Y3BQIg5Xv075saegHaHa&pi...

??

Is this some new Internet meme (e.g., "spam") that I missed?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#239
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most Americans know that the government can quite easily enter anyone’s home if they want to.

Generally, not legally without a warrant, which can be a good enough deterrent. Or at least should be if our legal process is working at all.

If you are wealthy enough to own your own land, this can be true. If you rent you have very few rights.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#240
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy's (now deceased) sister drove him to the location. So she was in on it, too. (Why she's not included as a perpetrator in discussions about this event is odd.) I'm sure he left evidence that goes well beyond his own phone if he was planning and plotting with others. They should have no trouble piecing this together with or without his phone.

I think it is more appropriate to refer to them as his brother https://www.out.com/news/2019/8/08/dayton-shooters-slain-bro...

I see this a lot. People who are known to be trans in the wider LGBTQ+ community die, then their family deadnames them to the press, and people come out of the woodworks to defend the family and the press while ignoring the wishes of the person who died.

Sometimes, like in this case, it's complicated because they're only out to a few people. I would still rather err on the side of what close friends say rather than family. The family probably had no idea. They rarely do until someone's ready to come out to everyone.

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