FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#81

Post by ehnto » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:20 AM UTC

unsungNovelty wrote: post #64

ben_w wrote: post #52

Is the American government position “Guns don’t kill people, encryption kills people”, or am I just combining the personal opinions of a bunch of unrelated people who work for the government?

This was exactly my thought when I read this article. But the scariest thing is that, what US Govt decides have huge implications for the whole world! Having a backdoor in software NOT only enables US government and other cyber criminals to have access. It also enables other governments like Russian, Chinese, Israilean, North Korean governments too! Keep that in mind too.

Australia has already made way for other nations to follow suit this year. We have a history with low gun violence, encryption or lack thereof had nothing to do with that.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#82

Post by odiroot » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:24 AM UTC

SimeVidas wrote: post #20

Why is it important that the FBI can access that person’s phone?

I've heard he was a supporter of some radical political groups. Maybe they're looking for a link? Co-perpetrators etc.?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#83

Post by drivingmydrinks » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:35 AM UTC

odiroot wrote: post #82

SimeVidas wrote: post #20

Why is it important that the FBI can access that person’s phone?

I've heard he was a supporter of some radical political groups. Maybe they're looking for a link? Co-perpetrators etc.?

Elizabeth Warren?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#84

Post by rocqua » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #68

Fjolsvith wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Co-defendants or co-conspirators?

they will get them by the computer and by the websites.

There is no reason except for hard to use implementations that the computer isn't encrypted.

If you're fine with phone encryption, you gotta expect the same for computers.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#85

Post by kabdib » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

mattio wrote: post #69

If there was such a thing like gun control they wouldn't need to access his phone. Just restrict access to guns.

It is politically more feasible to ban encryption in the US than it is to ban guns (or even significantly restrict them).

Wait, I'm wrong. Even essentially insignificant changes to gun laws at the federal level are harder than banning crypto.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#86

Post by NohatCoder » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:43 AM UTC

tempguy9999 wrote: post #77

SimeVidas wrote: post #20

Why is it important that the FBI can access that person’s phone?

Because saying "he's dead so this is the end of the matter" is unwise and it's worrying you're even asking this. . Were other people involved? . or other organisations such as extremists organisations? . Did he have people egging him on (even if totally uninvolved otherwise), or was he a complete loner? . Is there a hidden motive here that's not obvious? . Further evidence of stable and rational thinking, or mentally…

Sure it would be nice to have access to the phone, but it is just one of many pieces of evidence that may be gathered, and mostly it is redundant with other sources. If he used the phone for contacting co-terrorists there are trails in many other locations, unless he really knew how to hide his tracks, in which case it is unlikely that he would have left any trails on his phone either.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#87

Post by auslander » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:43 AM UTC

Must be iPhone then, not Android.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#88

Post by rocqua » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

sh-run wrote: post #18

ericlewis wrote: post #2

dead people is... the worst... arguing that we should give up freedom is bad... what, do we do here?

It's not even about freedom. The NSA and FBI would love to get legislation in place that weakens encryption, but the fact of the matter is you can't weaken encryption without breaking it. Your options are basically to either force everyone to use short keys that can be brute forced by the NSA (and anyone with cash to throw at AWS) or to set up a trusted-third party to store everyone's private keys and then either enf…

To be honest, the solution here is different. Just allow for signed firmware that uses the TPM without a time-lock.

Similar things could be done for many forms of encryption at rest secured by a TPM based on a PIN or fingerprints. (Though I am not sure about fingerprints).

This can essentially be done without key escrow. Though you could see this as key escrow where the signing key for code that accesses the TPM as the master key.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#89

Post by sorokod » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:58 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #49

> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence," This disgraceful, emotionally manipu…

> It isn’t just detective work, it is personnel with the skills to identify and pursue likely evidence.

I think that at this point of the 21st century, this is 100 % detective work.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#90

Post by fnord77 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:04 AM UTC

this will escalate quickly. figure 5 years or fewer until we see laws that have insanely harsh penalties (20 years in prison) for using non-backdoored encryption.