Live data from Hacker News

Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

newatlas.com

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#61
post #53

Don't get me wrong, I saw the title and was excited. I want this to be real. I want to believe. But way too many keyword drops. Disruptive is what red flagged me the most. Way too many promises. Only lab results and "experts" commenting that it should work in theory. But no prototype? Even though it's a different motor they don't "believe" it's going to cost more to make than traditional motors? Only 3d renders? I th…

I had the same reaction. Reminds me of old claims for a 50 mpg carburtor (on cars circa 1970). There's definitely a fishy smell about it.

Golf mk i did 50 mpg with ease. It weighted next to nothing and was 60hp.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the missing torque necessitates a transmission as the article mentions that will also have a limited degree of efficiency.

Or another motor. Or a motor optimized for high torque (lots of pole pairs) and another one for high speed (two pole pairs as you can hardly do 360° with a single pair). The issue is usually operating at high speeds, as electrical motors do develop high torque. Even a bus needs to operate with flux weakening. The motor in the article seems to combine a classical cylindrical design with a planar design (poles places o…

> The motor in the article seems to combine a classical cylindrical design with a planar design (poles places on a disc).

I would probably describe it as a toroidal motor[1].

[1]: https://www.moog.com/products/motors-servomotors/brushless-m...

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#63
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still impossible. 20% of 90% is 18%.

A 20% improvent would be a 20% closer to 100% specifically 20% out of the remaining 10% so 2% overall improvement. From 90% to 92%

20% less energy dissipated as heat.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction. Reminds me of old claims for a 50 mpg carburtor (on cars circa 1970). There's definitely a fishy smell about it.

Golf mk i did 50 mpg with ease. It weighted next to nothing and was 60hp.

honda crx also.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#65
post #20
post #8

Electric cars don't usually have "gearboxes" proper. They use gears, fixed ratio reductors. This is not expensive nor is it fragile nor bulky nor inefficient. The benefits that a very high torque motor could bring are real but marginal, a few percentage points improvements on the respective metrics. They could instantly be negated by, say, the lower initial reliability of a revolutionary design.

I am genuinely curious, why aren't there transmissions for electric engines? Surely the advantage would be the same as for an IC engine. I remember hearing that Tesla tried to build a 2 speed transmission for their Roadster back in the day, but apparently it kept breaking, so they stuck with no transmission. Are there transmissions out there for EVs, and I just haven't been paying attention? And if no, why is it so h…

Its not hard they just aren't needed.

Electric motors don't stall like an ICE, they produce much of their torque even at 0 rpm and usually operate over a wider rpm range.

A Tesla for instance has an electric motor that goes up to 18,000 rpm with a roughly 10:1 reduction gearbox for 0-155mph speed range without shifting any gears.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#67
post #20
post #8

Electric cars don't usually have "gearboxes" proper. They use gears, fixed ratio reductors. This is not expensive nor is it fragile nor bulky nor inefficient. The benefits that a very high torque motor could bring are real but marginal, a few percentage points improvements on the respective metrics. They could instantly be negated by, say, the lower initial reliability of a revolutionary design.

I am genuinely curious, why aren't there transmissions for electric engines? Surely the advantage would be the same as for an IC engine. I remember hearing that Tesla tried to build a 2 speed transmission for their Roadster back in the day, but apparently it kept breaking, so they stuck with no transmission. Are there transmissions out there for EVs, and I just haven't been paying attention? And if no, why is it so h…

Some ICE vehicles don't have a transmission! The most important reason for ICE engines to have multiple gears is low speed operation and moving from a stopped position.

First - ICE engines have a minimum running speed, usually between 650-800 rpm. Driving in a gear that runs the engine slower than this can cause the engine to stop running or damage it. The vehicle needs to be able to operate at low speeds, which requires a low gear ratio. Operating at high speeds requires a higher gear ratio so the engine isn't damaged from running at extremely high rpm (efficiency is also an important factor, but secondary).

Second - Motor vehicles with ICE engines (ignoring hybrid assist features) need to be able to move away from a stop with the engine running, and without allowing the engine rpm to drop below idle. This requires a clutch mechanism to disconnnect the running engine from the rest of the drivetrain, and to slip as the vehicle's speed rises to a point where it's safe to lock the engine's rotation speed to the drivetrain's rotation speed. Manual transmissions come with manually operated clutches, newer automatics have automatically operated clutches, and old automatics have a hydraulical coupler that slips at low engine speeds.

Massive vehicles have an extremely low first gear, so they can get going from a stop. Passenger vehicles have a first gear low enough to operate in places like a parking lot. Top fuel drag cars only have one speed; a massive clutch controls engine power transfer to the wheels.

Electric motor vehicles don't have the low speed operation problems that ICE cars have, or anywhere near the level of inertial wear and cacaphony at high rpm, so the transmission can be optional. Transmissions are expensive, and a vehicle in the EV market in its current state doesn't need that level of optimization to be competitive.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#69
post #29
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree about the article, I just want to mention that improving motor efficiency would also help with some of the other losses you mention. Going from 80% to 90% means that you need half as much cooling, batteries may be more efficient when you draw less power from them, etc. That might it worth it even if the motor efficiency gain alone doesn’t look like much on paper.

> Going from 80% to 90% means that you need half as much > cooling At the very most this will be 90% isn't all heat, I imagine the amount of cooling required to stay roughly the same. > batteries may be more efficient when you draw less power > from them, etc. From memory, a switch mode power supply is one of the most efficient at about 90% - but you really have to design it well to get that kind of efficiency [1]. T…

What do you mean, it’s not all heat — of course it is, that’s kind of the definition of efficiency.

Re: Electric motor design claims remarkable improvements

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction. Reminds me of old claims for a 50 mpg carburtor (on cars circa 1970). There's definitely a fishy smell about it.

Golf mk i did 50 mpg with ease. It weighted next to nothing and was 60hp.

“Reminds me of claims...”, and you want to talk about cars that were made well after the time period specified. That...kinda wasn’t the point.
Post reply on HN