Something I’ve always wondered about corporate America: on Apple rumour sites and so on it’s often breathlessly reported that all staff leave has been cancelled for whatever dates. What happens if eg you’d promised to take your kids to Disneyland and had everything booked? Do you just have to lose the booking deposit and let down your kids? Why do people put up with that?
Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
51–60 of 74 posts
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
LinkedIn shuts down for 2 weeks a year. These are the best vacation weeks. Like others say, there is no email waiting for you. No meetings or decisions that you regret not being involved in, etc.
Nobody is going to complain or lose money if LinkedIn doesn’t work for a couple days, I wouldn’t lump it in with other tech companies.
I don't necessarily like it, but a lot of people make their living on LinkedIn. This is quite an ignorant statement.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#53Thankfully, the trend seems to be towards a much greater tolerance of vacation time and an increased willingness to actually take vacation. I credit the millennials for this new attitude, as their clout in the workplace gradually supplants the tedious boomer philosophy that time off of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs. And the author makes a good point that giving workers time off can reveal things ab…
I'd be hesitant to draw broader trends from the experience of devs and other exempt employees at large tech firms. Anecdotally, I tend to agree. When I took multi-week vacations earlier in my career, that seemed to be something of an outlier. I'm not sure that's as true today.
One factor may be that, for better or worse, people can stay at least somewhat connected while on vacation. It used to be that traveling meant that it took a real effort to reach you. And if you were on vacation, you were pretty much incommunicado for the period.
On the other hand, I'd be very hesitant to draw broader conclusions about the adult working population.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#54Thankfully, the trend seems to be towards a much greater tolerance of vacation time and an increased willingness to actually take vacation. I credit the millennials for this new attitude, as their clout in the workplace gradually supplants the tedious boomer philosophy that time off of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs. And the author makes a good point that giving workers time off can reveal things ab…
> the tedious boomer philosophy that time off of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs
Not just that, you're stealing from the company. I've seriously met people with this mentality.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#55Something I’ve always wondered about corporate America: on Apple rumour sites and so on it’s often breathlessly reported that all staff leave has been cancelled for whatever dates. What happens if eg you’d promised to take your kids to Disneyland and had everything booked? Do you just have to lose the booking deposit and let down your kids? Why do people put up with that?
Personally I've never encountered such a thing though I'm sure it happens. Under most circumstances, I expect my reaction would be "Sorry but I booked a trip." I would be surprised to see a company reimburse significant personal expenses if that happened.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I worked at a place with unlimited vacation in the past, and took ~4 weeks per year. To be honest, if anything, my boss pushed me to take more. In the end I really think it comes down to your boss.
I heard a funny story from a senior guy at one of the big Bay Area tech companies (that has "unlimited" vacation) a little while back. They apparently hired a new PR person who quit after about six months because she couldn't deal with the fact that the CEO took vacations and he really took vacations in the "I'm on vacation. Handle whatever it is without me." sort of sense. It was just so alien that it completely str…
was that the thing that really stressed her out? or was every decision second-guessed once he got back? "handle things while I'm away" isn't as easy as it sounds if you're not supported in the decisions you make.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.
Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…
> in the US, if you're sick you have to burn leave, the concept of "you're sick, stay home" doesn't really exist
As always this depends where you work. There's reasons for removing "sick days", that aren't in the employees interest. I take 2-5 per year. For some people, if they have 10, they'd use 10. Kinda like how "unlimited vacation", can mean less vacation, as people don't want to be that guy, or hurt their career.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#58Something I’ve always wondered about corporate America: on Apple rumour sites and so on it’s often breathlessly reported that all staff leave has been cancelled for whatever dates. What happens if eg you’d promised to take your kids to Disneyland and had everything booked? Do you just have to lose the booking deposit and let down your kids? Why do people put up with that?
It's a totally rational, bigger-picture thought process:
1. Employer will not tolerate "absenteeism" and will retaliate with consequences up to termination.
2. Spouse will not accept lower standard of life via reduced wages. Since earning power ("a good provider") is a major reason why many spouses chose to marry their geeky/techie partner... any threat to stable employment is a threat to the stability of my family.
3. Housing is almost entirely unaffordable in Bay Area. Miss three payments and car is reposessed. Miss one credit card payment and score drops 60 points, interest rate goes up to 29.99%.
It becomes a simple expected value calculation after that. Would you prefer the 100% chance of losing Disneyland deposit/letting down your kids.... or the n% chance of becoming a homeless, carless, divorcee with a damaged credit score for the next 7 years?
To be clear: I'm not pro-corporation/anti-child... but there are reasons why working parents make the decisions they make.
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy to not take enough vacation at companies w/ unlimited vacation. Anecdotally, most of my peers at companies w/ unlimited vacation take less vacation than traditionally counted vacation days. I work at a place w/ unlimited vacation and take about 4-4.5 weeks per year. A big reason I actually get to take this much vacation is because our founders & senior leadership also take vacation. I could easily see a wor…
4 weeks is the legal minimum where I live, so that doesn’t seem like a lot at all. Also, the problem with unlimited vacation days is that you don’t get paid for unused days when you quit your job.
I suspect that's one of the driving factors at tech companies where many people hop between jobs every couple of years or so. The difference adds up for companies, especially if people don't take a lot of vacation anyway.
Personally, I've tended to stay at jobs for substantial periods of time although I've still gotten fairly nice vacation payouts on a couple of occasions. (Once and I think the statute of limitations is probably up on this one given the company doesn't exist--I got laid off in the dot-bomb era almost immediately after returning from a 3 week vacation I hadn't quite gotten around to entering yet.)
Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike
#60Something I’ve always wondered about corporate America: on Apple rumour sites and so on it’s often breathlessly reported that all staff leave has been cancelled for whatever dates. What happens if eg you’d promised to take your kids to Disneyland and had everything booked? Do you just have to lose the booking deposit and let down your kids? Why do people put up with that?
It's a totally rational, bigger-picture thought process: 1. Employer will not tolerate "absenteeism" and will retaliate with consequences up to termination. 2. Spouse will not accept lower standard of life via reduced wages. Since earning power ("a good provider") is a major reason why many spouses chose to marry their geeky/techie partner... any threat to stable employment is a threat to the stability of my family.…
"Since earning power ("a good provider") is a major reason why many spouses chose to marry their geeky/techie partner" [citation needed]
That seems like quite a bold statement. Is there any evidence that marriages involving a tech partner are more likely to be primarily based on earning power than other marriages?
Overall, marriages involving higher-earning professions and higher education are much less likely to end in divorce compared to marriages between less-educated partners, suggesting that "lost my tech job and got divorced" is not a major contributor to divorce rates overall. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_in_the_United_States#R...)