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Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

economist.com

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Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#41

Post by danmaz74 »

leg100 wrote: post #32
donretag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice is causing huge issues in Italy. The entire country historically takes off for the week around August 15th. However, this mass holiday causes vacation prices to soar, which means many blue collar workers can no longer afford to go away, and stay at home during their forced vacation. The government is trying to convince companies to stagger their closures. Not closing would be a good start.

Your argument doesn't make sense: the country historically took time off....workers can no longer afford to go away. What changed?

The cost of holidays in Italy has gone up a lot in comparison to real wages in the last decades (also because the expectations for a holiday are on average much higher now).

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#42

Post by yulaow »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #7
glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

When I am on vacation my work phone is off and so I have no way to be contacted or to read work emails. My team know they have to manage things by themselves and when they are on vacation I know I can't contact them.

For me it is not a vacation if I must be reacheble all the time.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#43

Post by shoo »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #14

Another thing that helps is that having a person out helps you find places where only one person can do something. There shouldn't be any processes that hinge on a single point of (human) failure, but it's easy for them to sneak in, so it's good to check every now and again: What would happen if this person were hit by a bus?

Provided you're in an environment where information from failures can be rapidly fed into improvements, and failures are not terminal: fail early, fail often, fail small.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#44

Post by eisa01 »

leg100 wrote: post #32
donretag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice is causing huge issues in Italy. The entire country historically takes off for the week around August 15th. However, this mass holiday causes vacation prices to soar, which means many blue collar workers can no longer afford to go away, and stay at home during their forced vacation. The government is trying to convince companies to stagger their closures. Not closing would be a good start.

Your argument doesn't make sense: the country historically took time off....workers can no longer afford to go away. What changed?

Probably the influx of foreign tourists, pricing out the domestic tourists?

Checking Eurostat for nights spent at tourist accomodation

2007: 213 mn domestic 163 mn foreign

2018: 212 mn domestic 217 mn foreign

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/cbe7ecda-...

edit: Eurostat is great! Hotel occupancy is also up, indicating that prices should also have gone up. This is even in an environment with the rise of AirBnBs

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/9f9a92e0-...

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#45

Post by lotsofpulp »

philwelch wrote: post #20
alistairSH wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…

I worked at a company once with unlimited vacation but limited sick leave. Riddle me that.

Perhaps a cover-their-ass rule to fulfill legal requirement to offer a minimum number of hours/days of sick leave.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#46

Post by lotsofpulp »

XenophileJKO wrote: post #37
pfisch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

LinkedIn shuts down for 2 weeks a year. These are the best vacation weeks. Like others say, there is no email waiting for you. No meetings or decisions that you regret not being involved in, etc.

Nobody is going to complain or lose money if LinkedIn doesn’t work for a couple days, I wouldn’t lump it in with other tech companies.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#47

Post by ghaff »

glitchcrab wrote: post #39
CuriouslyC wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

Then that is an issue with the company culture, processes and staffing. Holiday is holiday - I've never worked anywhere which would expect me to remain contactable whilst on holiday.

Yep. I will sometimes, when on vacation, help out on something if there's an issue I can help with quickly. I figure it balances the time when I'm theoretically working but am mostly doing other stuff.

But if I'm formally on vacation, there should be no expectation that I will pickup the phone or answer an email.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#48

Post by fastbeef »

sudmh wrote: post #31
hirundo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most businesses have customers that will go elsewhere if you ignore them for a month. If my employer tried that I would have no job to come back to. Maybe it would work for a dominatrix. "You are unworthy to see me for the next month, that will be $5,000, you may pay me now."

First, those customers would have nowhere else to go because everybody is on vacation. Second, those customers will be on vacation too to begin with!

Precisely this. In Sweden there is the notion of industrisemester which originated from when manufacturing dominated the economy. Basically, all of Sweden (minus social services) shuts down from midsummer to beginning of August. Any “real” work done during this period is an anomaly/bonus Depending on your disposition.

Since the whole country does this, customers are just fine with it.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#49

Post by ghaff »

ferzul wrote: post #26
CuriouslyC wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

How about if you're international? If there's a serious problem at work (and the bus number is one) I can't fix it because (a) it isn't legal to work while on leave (b) I'm overseas and it isn't legal to work on my visa. So if something goes won't, they're stuffed. at least that's they're fault.

At least for Americans, (a) is presumably very uncommon and (b) is never really a problem in my experience. Even if you're on a tourist visa, answering a work email or phone call isn't an issue. (Attending a conference or setting up in a co-work space for a few days may be, depending on the country, of course.)

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#50

Post by dmurray »

ghaff wrote: post #40
standardUser wrote: post #2

Thankfully, the trend seems to be towards a much greater tolerance of vacation time and an increased willingness to actually take vacation. I credit the millennials for this new attitude, as their clout in the workplace gradually supplants the tedious boomer philosophy that time off of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs. And the author makes a good point that giving workers time off can reveal things ab…

My understanding is that, at least historically, in finance there was some mandated time off based on the idea that if an individual were doing something sketchy, forcing them out of the office and offline for a couple of weeks might flush it out.

Still the case, or at least it's taught in compliance courses.
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