Holidays are good for workers and companies alike • Hacker News Board

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#31

Post by sudmh » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:34 AM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #17

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Most businesses have customers that will go elsewhere if you ignore them for a month. If my employer tried that I would have no job to come back to. Maybe it would work for a dominatrix. "You are unworthy to see me for the next month, that will be $5,000, you may pay me now."

First, those customers would have nowhere else to go because everybody is on vacation. Second, those customers will be on vacation too to begin with!

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#32

Post by leg100 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:44 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #18

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

This practice is causing huge issues in Italy. The entire country historically takes off for the week around August 15th. However, this mass holiday causes vacation prices to soar, which means many blue collar workers can no longer afford to go away, and stay at home during their forced vacation. The government is trying to convince companies to stagger their closures. Not closing would be a good start.

Your argument doesn't make sense: the country historically took time off....workers can no longer afford to go away.

What changed?

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#33

Post by dewey » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

leg100 wrote: post #32

donretag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice is causing huge issues in Italy. The entire country historically takes off for the week around August 15th. However, this mass holiday causes vacation prices to soar, which means many blue collar workers can no longer afford to go away, and stay at home during their forced vacation. The government is trying to convince companies to stagger their closures. Not closing would be a good start.

Your argument doesn't make sense: the country historically took time off....workers can no longer afford to go away. What changed?

Maybe more people in jobs where you can easily take a week off without it effecting much. Farmers probably can’t be away for a week during the summer.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#34

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:18 AM UTC

pfisch wrote: post #13

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

We don’t reduce to zero (which I believe we do on weekends). But since our customers (other businesses) also have holidays, it’s really quiet

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#35

Post by Aaargh20318 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:41 AM UTC

DanFeldman wrote: post #6

alistairSH wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…

It's easy to not take enough vacation at companies w/ unlimited vacation. Anecdotally, most of my peers at companies w/ unlimited vacation take less vacation than traditionally counted vacation days. I work at a place w/ unlimited vacation and take about 4-4.5 weeks per year. A big reason I actually get to take this much vacation is because our founders & senior leadership also take vacation. I could easily see a wor…

4 weeks is the legal minimum where I live, so that doesn’t seem like a lot at all.

Also, the problem with unlimited vacation days is that you don’t get paid for unused days when you quit your job.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#36

Post by stephen_g » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:53 AM UTC

leg100 wrote: post #32

donretag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice is causing huge issues in Italy. The entire country historically takes off for the week around August 15th. However, this mass holiday causes vacation prices to soar, which means many blue collar workers can no longer afford to go away, and stay at home during their forced vacation. The government is trying to convince companies to stagger their closures. Not closing would be a good start.

Your argument doesn't make sense: the country historically took time off....workers can no longer afford to go away. What changed?

The population might have grown faster than the amount of holiday accomodation supply did, coupled, I would guess, with there being much more demand from international visitors just generally.

Perhaps there is also higher income inequality between workers? I’m not sure about Italy specifically, but generally there has always been inequality, but it has usually between the upper class that didn’t have to work and the lower class that did. I would guess the upper class would holiday whenever they wanted? I would assume that now there’s a large group of middle class workers given time off at the same time, and they would be a lot more cashed up and in direct competition for accomodation and travel fares with the lower class workers.

So plenty of reasons that could be the case. I imagine the huge growth in international tourism meaning huge numbers of visitors would be the biggest contributor.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#37

Post by XenophileJKO » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:13 AM UTC

pfisch wrote: post #13

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

LinkedIn shuts down for 2 weeks a year. These are the best vacation weeks. Like others say, there is no email waiting for you. No meetings or decisions that you regret not being involved in, etc.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#38

Post by glitchcrab » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:14 AM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #5

glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…

Rough guess would be around the 6 week mark. It may not be on traditional holidays per se, but I took a day off to help my parents fit CCTV last week - those individual days start to add up too. The company will tell you to take some time off if you're not taking enough.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#39

Post by glitchcrab » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #7

glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

Then that is an issue with the company culture, processes and staffing. Holiday is holiday - I've never worked anywhere which would expect me to remain contactable whilst on holiday.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#40

Post by ghaff » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:27 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #2

Thankfully, the trend seems to be towards a much greater tolerance of vacation time and an increased willingness to actually take vacation. I credit the millennials for this new attitude, as their clout in the workplace gradually supplants the tedious boomer philosophy that time off of any kind is something to be avoided at all costs. And the author makes a good point that giving workers time off can reveal things ab…

My understanding is that, at least historically, in finance there was some mandated time off based on the idea that if an individual were doing something sketchy, forcing them out of the office and offline for a couple of weeks might flush it out.