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Who Owns Huawei?

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Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#241

Post by nabla9 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #236
nabla9 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not instantly. First Japanese made shitty copy factory that was behind the west and produced low quality products sold cheap. "Made in Japan" was brand for cheap knock off products for a long time. Japanese cars had a reputation of being easy to break "rice cups" even in the 80's. Gradual improvement and climbing up the value chain happened in Japan, then in South Korea and now it's happening in China. Asian cultures…

Depends on whether or not there is something to copy...

Perfect example: Aircraft carrier operations.

The US has painfully acquired the expertise and skills over half century. Thousands of aviators and sailors have died over decades until the current level of expertise has been reached.

Chinese have studied and copied everything. They translated USN carrier vessel flight deck manuals into Chinese and adopted it almost verbatim. Even the colors are the same. That's really smart thing to do. Trying to innovate and do your own thing starting from scratch because you have the false sense of pride and need be different would be stupid.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#242

Post by ahartmetz »

brainpool wrote: post #231
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

Spot on. It is really important to understand that China does not have the same value system as the enlightened world. I am not saying that the sino mindset is inferior in any way, but it is important to realize that it is very different and that many premises we take for granted are null and void when it comes to China. The Chinese state of today is far worse than the most dystopian views the west had of Soviet duri…

Have you visited China? It doesn't feel as dystopian as you may think. I don't mean to say that everything is fine, but on the other hand regular people don't seem to live in fear of their friends or children spying on them for the secret police like they were in the GDR.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#243

Post by brainpool »

spion wrote: post #235
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

So in China, the government owns the corporations, while in the USA, the corporations own the government.

Not quite. In the USA the corporations own the people. In China the state owns the people (there is not much government to speak of).

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#244

Post by roguesherlock »

xxxpupugo wrote: post #203
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

The concept of state and corporation should be separate to protect freedom is really a US phenomenon or ideal. In East Asia, the Japanese model, that later adopted by both South Korea and China, relies on the exact opposite. The government directly involves in guiding and shaping the economy. And they are smart in doing so, with the corporations being their vehicles to implement its policy and they are ones to pickin…

What's interesting to me is, even with this construct in place, the government can still intervene if they'd like. So, isn't it just a facade ? At least with china, I clearly know what I'm getting into (albeit not a good thing).

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#245

Post by varjag »

darkhorn wrote: post #173
jjeaff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?

Pavel Durov did his best to prevent Russian government to obtain Ukrainian users' data, at Vkontakte.

And look how it worked out for him. It's hardly a counterexample to GPs point.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#246

Post by [deleted] »

steve19 wrote: post #113
chubbyrabbit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> state directed when needed Isn't it the same in here in the US? The president said "hey companies, you cannot trade with Huawei" and every company has to follow. My point is every government has some degree of influence on their companies. How much is another question. However in my opinion Huawei cannot be as innovative as they are with as much influence from their government as people here often suggest.

Given that most news media, and many CEOs, in the country oppose the President, with impunity, it is hard to argue the government has the same level of control.

[deleted]

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#247

Post by amelius »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

So I suppose a "level playing field" is never going to happen.

How are US companies supposed to compete against such state backed corporations?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#248

Post by [deleted] »

deepVoid wrote: post #51
georgeecollins wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think you are used to Western Companies where the default is private ownership. All major Chinese companies began as state owned enterprises, and it is usually necessary to get investment from one to get a charter. So ostensibly private companies have a big state investment. Plus a trade union committee implies a government structure.

It is not true that all major Chinese companies began as state-owned enterprises. Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu etc. are all private. They were started by their founders and funded by VC money. For instance, Alibaba was started by Jack Ma and 17 others. It is privately-owned by shareholders, none of which is state or government[1]. For some other industries such as banks, railway, oil etc., it is different. They are mostly…

[deleted]

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#249

Post by Havoc »

sprafa wrote: post #99

There’s also something the Chinese state calls “fusion centres” which is one of the most interesting facets of this intelligence-industrial complex in China. Essentially the state decides, let’s say high tech cutting edge batteries for storing renewable energy is where they want to invest in. They gather a few companies into a building that can do it or are interested. They then have state representatives who effecti…

>here’s the talk

It's at 36 minute mark

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#250

Post by IllogicalLogic »

ahartmetz wrote: post #242
brainpool wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. It is really important to understand that China does not have the same value system as the enlightened world. I am not saying that the sino mindset is inferior in any way, but it is important to realize that it is very different and that many premises we take for granted are null and void when it comes to China. The Chinese state of today is far worse than the most dystopian views the west had of Soviet duri…

Have you visited China? It doesn't feel as dystopian as you may think. I don't mean to say that everything is fine, but on the other hand regular people don't seem to live in fear of their friends or children spying on them for the secret police like they were in the GDR.

Do they live in fear of getting shot at grocery stores? I hear the crime rate is dramatically lower than ours.
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