Who Owns Huawei? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#161

Post by friendlybus » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

magpi3 wrote: post #119

eschaton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. There are literally historical and current events you’re not allowed to talk about in China without being arrested and charged with a crime or even disappeared. That’s not an overestimation, that’s the very definition of authoritarian.

As someone who just came from China after living there for nine months, I think the better way to put it is this: you can talk about whatever you want, but if you make an effort to organize, initiate, or participate in a public discussion concerning a taboo topic, then you are putting yourself at risk. It's the appearance of an organizing that is really taboo. Of course please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I…

A young girl (10? 12?) was a famous streamer than sung a line from the national anthem in a sing-songy way and was jailed for 'making fun of the nation anthem'. You can see the exact moment she realizes she messed up.

advchina/serpentza/laowhy86 are the canaries in the coalmine atm.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#162

Post by sprafa » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:51 AM UTC

tr3ndyBEAR wrote: post #137

sprafa wrote: post #99

There’s also something the Chinese state calls “fusion centres” which is one of the most interesting facets of this intelligence-industrial complex in China. Essentially the state decides, let’s say high tech cutting edge batteries for storing renewable energy is where they want to invest in. They gather a few companies into a building that can do it or are interested. They then have state representatives who effecti…

To be fair, most of innovation in America also comes from the public sector not the private one. Economist Mariana Mazzucato famously wrote about this and more in her book "The Entrepreneurial State: Debunking Public vs. Private Sector Myths" which I highly recommend if you're interested. I think it's a little misguided to say that China's innovation is solely due to corporate espionage. States have always been effec…

I didn’t say it was solely due to espionage, only gave an example I found interesting of how they use it for their benefit really.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#163

Post by friendlybus » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #49

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, but remember that they aren’t prevented from making money or conducting legitimate business just because they answer to the party officials. It’s not worthwhile to spy on teenagers wholesale, but they might pull the logs of a senator’s kid and we would never be the wiser. Also, owning some of Western popular culture is a decent geopolitical chip. Maybe it’s not as great as a nuke, but China can use popula…

Yea if you want to change the world, reach out to the next generation? Remember all those other generations of people living in crazy societies with crazy ideas? People's values, behaviors and loyalties are basically imprinted on them during childhood. There is an Einstein quote where he talks about how 'most people can't even form their own opinions' and he is right.

>There is an Einstein quote where he talks about how 'most people can't even form their own opinions' and he is right.

Pretty much Nietzsche was the only guy who said you could make your own values.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#164

Post by bb101 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

sprafa wrote: post #132

bb101 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. Do you know any recent good books that cover the topic? I'm thinking something like Browder's Red Notice, but for China. Misha Glenny delved into China in his McMafia, but it was more about smuggling in the Fujian province, and its governor at the time: Xi.

Actually just realised. The CyberSecPolitics blog has book reviews. The guy clearly knows what he’s talking about so I have no qualms saying he probably can do better book recommendations than I can.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#165

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

It's important to note that this deep integration of corporations and the state is by no means unique to China - to a great extent, Deng Xiaoping's modernization in the 1980s emulated the chaebol of South Korea and the Keiretsu of Japan. Korean and Japanese business is based on tacit relationships between extremely large vertically-integrated corporations and the state while China has more overt elements of a command economy, but the effect is essentially the same.

The least cynical reading is that it's an expression of neo-Confucian values; those in a position of political, military or economic power have a broad belief in the importance of cooperation and "social harmony". If the NSA want to access all of Google's data, they hide an implant in a data center, put optical splitters on key fiber links or bribe a third party to provide a backdoor in a vital software dependency (PRISM and BULLRUN). If the PLA want Tencent's data or the NIS want Samsung's data they just ask for it, on the understanding that a) they're not really in a position to say no and b) cooperation with the state is a mutually beneficial quid-pro-quo.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#166

Post by ken47 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

watertom wrote: post #142

As usual with China we are focused on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions. Who owns Huawei is irrelevant, who ultimately controls Huawei is the issue, but it’s a simple answer, the Chinese Government. I was in China on business, we were meeting the one of the largest and most successful tech companies in China. We were meeting with the Chairman/CEO and his team. Everyone was introduced except one man, ever…

True if big.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#167

Post by smacktoward » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 5:08 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #146

jjeaff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?

Do you know that this hasn’t happened in Russia or China? Are you suggesting that no company in Russia or China has ever resisted any demand from their government?

We know Apple has. If you believe there are Russian or Chinese companies that have acted similarly, that’s fine, but to convince the rest of us the burden is on you to provide some examples.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#168

Post by pjscott » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

cbHXBY1D wrote: post #141

lowdose wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the surface these state owned operations look similar but the results speak to the contrary. I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. The Kremlin chased out a lot Russians with academic papers. China on the other hand seems to be the place that facilitates the best startup opportunities.

> I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. This is an old orientalist trope.

Is it true?? (I'm from no particular wasteland country, so I don't know about contexts. huy, ..... \\

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#169

Post by closeparen » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 5:17 AM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #23

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

What kind of accommodation? Most places have regulations and taxes.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#170

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 5:18 AM UTC

sprafa wrote: post #99

There’s also something the Chinese state calls “fusion centres” which is one of the most interesting facets of this intelligence-industrial complex in China. Essentially the state decides, let’s say high tech cutting edge batteries for storing renewable energy is where they want to invest in. They gather a few companies into a building that can do it or are interested. They then have state representatives who effecti…

This just completely ignores the massive sums of money Chinese companies are spending on R&D. I'm sure that China engages in industrial espionage, as do many countries, but chalking up China's development into higher-value-added economic sectors to espionage leaves out the fact that they now spend more on R&D than Japan, Germany and South Korea combined.