Who Owns Huawei? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#141

Post by cbHXBY1D » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

lowdose wrote: post #32

smacktoward wrote: post #23

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

On the surface these state owned operations look similar but the results speak to the contrary. I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. The Kremlin chased out a lot Russians with academic papers. China on the other hand seems to be the place that facilitates the best startup opportunities.

> I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack.

This is an old orientalist trope.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#142

Post by watertom » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

As usual with China we are focused on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions.

Who owns Huawei is irrelevant, who ultimately controls Huawei is the issue, but it’s a simple answer, the Chinese Government.

I was in China on business, we were meeting the one of the largest and most successful tech companies in China. We were meeting with the Chairman/CEO and his team. Everyone was introduced except one man, everyone basically acted like the guy wasn’t in the room. He just sat and listened until he heard something he didn’t like, he quickly took over the meeting, admonished the CEO, and insisted they we do as he said. For the remainder of the meeting the CEO and his team sat head facing the conference table, it was clear they were all terrified.

Once the key parts of the meeting were decided this man got up and left, the meeting quickly ended. I tried to get my Chinese colleagues to explain what happened, but everyone just blew me off.

A couple days later we were in Taiwan, and I got the full story. The man was the party official who guided the company. The guy made sure that the Chinese government’s interests were followed.

It’s China, thinking about things like it’s the West is stupid. Everything is owned by the government.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#143

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 3:50 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#144

Post by roboys » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:03 AM UTC

ma2rten wrote: post #82

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

Market performance is not the real driver of the company’s decisions. Every company has different stakeholders, who have different interests. The German state of lower saxony has a 20% stake in VW. That doesn't mean that VW does not compete with other car makers.

Also it seems disingenuous to act like boards of US Fortune 500 companies aren't filled with ex-government/intelligence/military staff that play a role in aligning the company's interest with the government's interests.

It's soft power that results in similar outcomes. Look at Theranos's board, it's not as unique as people think when compared to other majors...

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#145

Post by joejerryronnie » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #92

est31 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you fall out of favour, your company gets taken away from you. See Khodorkovsky as an example.

Also, see Alibaba

Absolutely correct. Jack Ma was smart enough to realize he had amassed too much wealth, power, and influence to remain in the good graces of The Party. He was, essentially, one step ahead of the firing squad (or at least a major state contrived scandal which would land him in jail for a decade).

This seems to be the opposite of the US system where, once you amass that amount of wealth, power, and influence, you get to control the major political parties.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#146

Post by baddox » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:08 AM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #108

all_usernames wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convince me this is any different in America.

It's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?

Do you know that this hasn’t happened in Russia or China? Are you suggesting that no company in Russia or China has ever resisted any demand from their government?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#147

Post by ETHisso2017 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:19 AM UTC

watertom wrote: post #142

As usual with China we are focused on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions. Who owns Huawei is irrelevant, who ultimately controls Huawei is the issue, but it’s a simple answer, the Chinese Government. I was in China on business, we were meeting the one of the largest and most successful tech companies in China. We were meeting with the Chairman/CEO and his team. Everyone was introduced except one man, ever…

This sounds more like an urban legend than an actual event.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#148

Post by joejerryronnie » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:20 AM UTC

throwaway94857 wrote: post #139

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

I'd like to elaborate on the unity of the different elements of Chinese society you mention. Chinese institutions are all unified under a single structure, and that structure is the Communist (in name only) Party. Party members are embedded in every single important facet of society. Education, the military, the government, the private sector, it's all linked and unified by the party. Now, we can compare this structu…

You're assuming the centralized "neocortex" model (i.e. communism/socialism) is more effective than the distributed model (i.e. marketplace/capitalism/crowd sourced). Who knows, at this point, but the next decade will be very interesting to watch.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#149

Post by LegitShady » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:22 AM UTC

bitL wrote: post #111

LegitShady wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might become secretary of state tho

If they win; in the aforementioned example that person lost. I never understood why should I feel any sympathies to either crook just because certain powers used them for their own purposes.

they did become secretary of state, and many shady situations and abuse of power appear to have happened. I am inclined to believe the intelligence apparatus was turned against their political opponents unethically and perhaps illegally. They succeeded in this and so far they have gotten away with it.

Bill Barr has had the ability to declassify for 80 days, nothing yet. I expect nothing but covering up for the DoJ and Wray's FBI.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#150

Post by bitL » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 4:24 AM UTC

jtsnow wrote: post #80

philwelch wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia, according to famed Russian dissident Garry Kasparov, operates this way more as a mafia syndicate. Corruption allows the “oligarchs” to enrich themselves with the nation’s mineral resources so long as some of their power (and even money) remains at the beck and call of the don: Putin. China is different. It’s not an oil and gas oligarchy like Russia or the Gulf states. It is somewhat like the US was during the…

Or as Bill Browser described it: "This whole exercise was teaching me that Russian business culture is closer to that of a prison yard than anything else. In prison, all you have is your reputation. Your position is hard-earned and it is not relinquished easily. When someone is crossing the yard coming for you, you cannot stand idly by. You have to kill him before he kills you. If you don’t, and if you manage to surv…

In Russia a theft of a company comes immediately after the initial start-up phase is over and company starts to post profits. Immediately noticed by tax office, groups of lawyers zero in and simply take it away from the owner. I was told about such an example from one high-profile Russian who escaped to keep his company alive. US entrepreneurs in China had similar experience; once company took off, they had to "share the technology" with some state companies that then produced the same thing cheaper and knocked the original company out. Kleptocracy is a proper term for both.