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Who Owns Huawei?

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71–80 of 334 posts

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, but remember that they aren’t prevented from making money or conducting legitimate business just because they answer to the party officials. It’s not worthwhile to spy on teenagers wholesale, but they might pull the logs of a senator’s kid and we would never be the wiser. Also, owning some of Western popular culture is a decent geopolitical chip. Maybe it’s not as great as a nuke, but China can use popula…

> Also, owning some of Western popular culture is a decent geopolitical chip. Tencent is co-producing the Top Gun sequel, and Maverick's jacket no longer has either the Japanese or Taiwanese flags on the back: * https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a28479683/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gun:_Maverick > Maybe it’s not as great as a nuke, but China can use popular video games to raise the next generatio…

Which part of China is not a totalitarian state?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#72
post #36

Seriously, why is Huawei so important, is it because TRIAMPH says so. A communications medium across air.

Because who makes the telcos equipments (MSC, HLR, BSC, etc.) can spy a lot and at large scale. There is a concern of allowing Huawei equipments in telco operator networks.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#73
post #54
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market socialism, as fare as I'm aware, is defined by social ownership of the means of production. State capitalism would definitely be more appropriate to describe China. Especially in the marxist sense of the term. edit: I spoke with a Chinese student once, whom preferred the term dictatorial capitalism.

>social ownership of the means of production Slightly off topic but can you clarify what 'social ownership' means, exactly? I've been trying to figure this out for a few weeks now. I just ask since you seem to know. Wikipedia says, "The two major forms of social ownership are society-wide public ownership and cooperative ownership." What's the practical difference between 'society-wide public ownership' and governmen…

>What's the practical difference between 'society-wide public ownership' and government ownership? The government is supposed to represent the people.

Typically, socialists (and even market socialists) contend that the current democratic establishment does not represent the people, usually going off Lenin's conception of "bourgeois democracy". This is also behind the most common Marxist rejection of achieving socialism through non-revolutionary means. Compare, for instance, how Lenin described what he figured Soviet Socialism would turn out to be - control by the soviets, not by the state. Of course it didn't really turn out that way, and in Economic Problems of the USSR, Stalin effectively admitted as such.

>What are some existing, real, sustained examples of 'social ownership' in real history?

This is a difficult question because one would either have to draw from pre-capitalist modes of production to answer the question, or one would have to argue that the USSR/Stalinism implemented such social ownership. I have already described why the second is not appropriate (see here[0] too) but the first is also not appropriate because "social ownership" is not a transhoistorical term, it was intended to describe a future mode of production in which it is one of the components of socialism (market or otherwise) - its applicability, therefore, does not encompass pre-capitalist or capitalist modes of production. For the notion of the critique of transhistorical categories, see Marx's discussion on the "Robinsonades"[1] and Patrick Murray's argument on Marx's improvement over David Ricardo and Adam Smith[2]. That said, you would probably have to look deeper into anthropology to find if such a society did indeed exist - that is to say, a society in which as far as we can tell today the will of the producers themselves was actually reflected in the ownership and control of the means of production and its products.

Finally, a note: Marx himself, to my knowledge, never used the term "social ownership". In fact, his argument against Proudhon was that plain "social ownership" results in a state where "society becomes a general capitalist". The term was used by Engels once, but he quotes Marx as follows:

>Marx assumes on page 56 “a community of free individuals, carrying on their work with the means of production in common, in which the labour-power of all the different individuals is consciously applied as the combined labour-power of the community[3]

As such, I tend to avoid using the term, as do most academic Marxists.

[0] "On the Question of Soviet Socialism" (2011) by Paresh Chattopadhyay, a rejoiner to David Laibman's thesis of the USSR having achieved "formal" socialism but not "real" socialism; (Chattopadhyay doubts that it even achieved "formal" socialism in the Marxian sense). https://www.jstor.org/stable/25769087

[1] https://marxism.csbs.utah.narkive.com/qeQK04SD/marx-on-robin...

[2] "Marxs “Truly Social” Labour Theory of Value: Part II, How is Labour that Is Under the Sway of Capital Actually Abstract?" Historical Materialism, Number 7 (Winter 2000)

[3] "Anti-Dühring" by Frederick Engels (1877), chapter XIII. Dialectics. Negation of the Negation; available here: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhrin...

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#74
post #17

[flagged]

>The more regulation the more ownership of the state. Private companies are mostly an illusion these days as you can't do whatever you want with "your" company. Yes, it's just disgusting that private companies and their owners have to obey laws like anyone else.

You'd think with how much people shout about how they hate nazis today that they'd be immune to writing something as misguided as this.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#75

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

Russia, according to famed Russian dissident Garry Kasparov, operates this way more as a mafia syndicate. Corruption allows the “oligarchs” to enrich themselves with the nation’s mineral resources so long as some of their power (and even money) remains at the beck and call of the don: Putin. China is different. It’s not an oil and gas oligarchy like Russia or the Gulf states. It is somewhat like the US was during the…

> China isn’t at war though

Yet.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#76

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

Russia, according to famed Russian dissident Garry Kasparov, operates this way more as a mafia syndicate. Corruption allows the “oligarchs” to enrich themselves with the nation’s mineral resources so long as some of their power (and even money) remains at the beck and call of the don: Putin. China is different. It’s not an oil and gas oligarchy like Russia or the Gulf states. It is somewhat like the US was during the…

On Russia, Bill Browder's book Red Notice does an exceptional job of going into detail describing what you mention. It is really quite special.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#77

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

And if you fall out of favour, your company gets taken away from you. See Khodorkovsky as an example.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#78
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the surface these state owned operations look similar but the results speak to the contrary. I think Chinese corporations behave more like a beehive and Russians like a wolf pack. The Kremlin chased out a lot Russians with academic papers. China on the other hand seems to be the place that facilitates the best startup opportunities.

This makes sense. Russian economy is much less dependent on talented work force, they have vast resources in proportion to their population.

If 3 million people with a master / Phd move out, your economy takes hit especially when the country's GDP is below the level of Italy.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#79
post #40
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you classify Tencent on the same level as Huawei? And if so, does that mean most American youth are plugged into League Of Legends & Fortnite, a Chinese Surveillance system ? lol

League of Legends censors the phrase “Xi Jinping,” in English, in non-Chinese regions: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/93f04k/just_found_o...

Does it censor Pooh-bear though?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#80

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

Russia, according to famed Russian dissident Garry Kasparov, operates this way more as a mafia syndicate. Corruption allows the “oligarchs” to enrich themselves with the nation’s mineral resources so long as some of their power (and even money) remains at the beck and call of the don: Putin. China is different. It’s not an oil and gas oligarchy like Russia or the Gulf states. It is somewhat like the US was during the…

Or as Bill Browser described it:

"This whole exercise was teaching me that Russian business culture is closer to that of a prison yard than anything else. In prison, all you have is your reputation. Your position is hard-earned and it is not relinquished easily. When someone is crossing the yard coming for you, you cannot stand idly by. You have to kill him before he kills you. If you don’t, and if you manage to survive the attack, you’ll be deemed weak"

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