Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 516 posts

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#491

Post by a_f »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #372
scarmig wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, Yang suggests a technocratic approach: pass a certain policy (UBI) that would likely fix lots of things if passed, and then observe it work and adjust as necessary. Sanders doesn't AFAIK support a UBI, but on top of a slew of left-wing policies, his perspective is that you need a mass movement of people to build institutions that can challenge corporate power.

I'm not saying he's right, but I think Yang's policy towards that is to give everyone $100 for them to donate to the politician/party they wish to "drown out corporate lobbying". I'm not saying that'll work (or that it won't) but for the sake of it, that's his policy. He also wishes to implement preferential voting.

I wonder if you could set it up such that all donations go into a pot/fund, and then have each person vote for the party they wish to receive the funds proportional to that vote.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#492

Post by Traster »

yalogin wrote: post #224

I strongly believe Uber is going to shut down their self driving car unit at some point. May be in a year or two. There is no reason to keep that running when the end is not in sight for SDCs. That is not going to happen at the level Uber wants any time soon. If not today, very soon, Uber is going to accept it and dump their unit.

Or they could do what Tesla does and continually pump out press releases to prop up their stock price.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#493

Post by burkaman »

kart23 wrote: post #304
burkaman wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence is mixed: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-drivi... Most people who drive drunk aren't doing it because they're desperate and have no other option, they're doing it because they're drunk assholes. They will still do it even when they could get a Lyft for $8. They're drunk. > I couldn't even imagine trying to get home without lyft or uber in many circumstances. Ok, but people must have m…

I agree with you on the drunk driving part, but it just makes a lot of situations way easier. A group of 4 friends can go out without having a car, have fun, and not have any anxiety about how they are gonna get home at the end of the night. My college and the city actually has changed a lot in the past 10 years, it's seen acceptance rates go down 20%, 2 deaths in Greek life, tuition rise by $10,000, and major compan…

I agree that it makes things easier for people who use it. I used it a lot in college because my school basically told us that if we walked more than 3 blocks outside campus we would get shot.

My point is that it's a marginal improvement, and there are so many downsides. In my city, 8% of cars on the road are Ubers and Lyfts, and half of them are just drivers cruising around looking for passengers. [1] That's terrible for traffic, terrible for the environment, and terrible for anyone who wants to bike through a square without a clueless Uber swerving into them to drop someone off.

Also, the backstop of Uber makes it much less likely for people to push for real sustainable public transport. In 5 years, when Uber is dead or so expensive that most people won't use it regularly, we're going to look around and wonder why the buses and trains seem to have stagnated for 15 years. It's a tough sell to shut down a few streets to expand a subway line right now when that disrupts all this essential Uber traffic.

Finally, think about the opportunity cost. The hundreds of billions of dollars that could have gone to real infrastructure [2], or startups that aren't going to fire all of their definitely-not-employees in a couple years.

[1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FIUskVkj9lsAnWJQ6kLhAhNoVLj..., https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/08/uber-lyft-tra...

[2] https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1157456628532170752

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#494

Post by buboard »

xyzzyz wrote: post #199
aussiegreenie wrote: post #109

The most ridiculous thing in Sydney is all the Uber drivers drive for Uber, Bolt and Ola. The same car, the same driver but the only difference is a which button I push on my phone. So whoever gives me a discount I will use and if no one will I will catch a bus or taxi. Google Maps shows me the estimated cost for Uber and Bolt.

I wouldn't say it's really that ridiculous, not any more than different grocery chains carrying the same products. I think this is exactly what gig economy, and in general market capitalism, should be like -- pushing the price down through competition for the benefit of the consumer.

The consumer in these apps is the driver. They are emphatic on that

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#495

Post by BeetleB »

dougmwne wrote: post #474
BeetleB wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A 2014 Honda Civic would cost about 5k per year or $416/Mo. You can see my numbers here for my Civic. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20650989 Mine was 8 years old when I bought it, but with low miles (about 60K). So I paid a bit of a premium - almost as much as the 2014 Civic on that page. I kept it till it was at 144K miles. Effective cost to own was under $300/mo. Comparing the 2014 numbers with mine: Insura…

One reason they include financing cost in the TCO calculator, even thought it's possible to buy a car in cash is due to the time value of money. Cars do not earn a rate of return, so any money you have in a car instead of investments is sitting idle. You subtracted your sale price from your purchase price, but that only counts the depreciation, not the opportunity cost. For example, let's say you bought your car for…

Yes, but don't assume I can just put the whole purchase price in an investment. The comparison is between buying and using Uber.

In my case it came down to $242/mo vs anywhere from $360 to $480/mo with Uber. It's not clear to me that had I invested the purchase price the 7% return would be enough to make up the difference of $120-240/mo. Certainly not in the first year. I'd have to do the math to see when the breakeven point would be where that initial investment is yielding more than the extra cost of using Uber.

There's also the fact that 7% is the market's return, which is over a 30 year span. On a 10 year span, the rate of return is highly volatile, and could even be negative (on the flip side, could be a lot more than 7%).

I just ran the numbers, BTW. With my purchase price, invested at 7%, I break even after 7 years (just about the time I owned it) - assuming Uber is the upper bound of $480/mo. At the $360/mo cost I'd break even after 3-4 years.

I didn't take into account the sale price, so that would make the breakeven point a little farther.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#496

Post by CydeWeys »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #381
malandrew wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason that taxis have been able to achieve any decent utilization at all is the medallion system which greatly restricts supply. Without artificially constraining supply at the expense of consumer demand, taxi utilization would be abysmal.

It doesn't really make sense to assume that utilization would be abysmal without constraining supply. The people who operate taxis are rational actors. People who operate taxis will simply exit (or not enter) the business if they're sitting around idle and not making money.

The problem is that vehicles in general cause negative externalities that the people driving them don't pay for, namely: Traffic congestion, localized pollution, and global pollution (CO2). FHVs are definitely susceptible to this phenomenon. Here in NYC we're having to implement a congestion tax in Manhattan to reduce the number of vehicles on the roads.

Admittedly, it is probably better to charge all vehicles for entering the most congested areas by their size (i.e. trucks pay more) than it is to pick and choose by artificially limiting just some types of vehicles while allowing unlimited numbers of others.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#497

Post by awakeasleep »

jonknee wrote: post #104
itake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what he is saying is the demand for Lyft / Uber was manufactured by low prices. Now that they are more expensive, people are using public transit more.

Except total rides on both platforms are at all time highs?

So is public transit ridership

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#498

Post by iamatworknow »

georgeecollins wrote: post #272
iamatworknow wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a lease on something like a Toyota Corolla with no money down and ~$250 per month. That plus gas plus maybe having to pay for a parking space would probably break even, if not save a little money. Not to mention any rides that aren't part of the commute.

Inexpensive leases often come with limits on mileage that make the cars more expensive to lease if you drive over the limit.

The two leases I've had were 12k miles/year (or 36k for the term of the lease). I work from home now but I used used to live 10 miles away from my job, and still turned in my vehicle at the end of my first lease with like 10k miles to spare.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#499

Post by iamatworknow »

Kye wrote: post #84
iamatworknow wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a lease on something like a Toyota Corolla with no money down and ~$250 per month. That plus gas plus maybe having to pay for a parking space would probably break even, if not save a little money. Not to mention any rides that aren't part of the commute.

Don't forget insurance, maintenance, tag, and other fees associated with owning a car.

For what it's worth Toyota leases come with 2 years of maintenance included, and unless you have major trouble, that last year might be an oil change or two costing ~$100 at the dealership (less if you go elsewhere). Admittedly, insurance can be pricy depending on where you are. Registration/tag fees can vary quite a bit depending on what state you're in.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#500

Post by malandrew »

piva00 wrote: post #488
malandrew wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil

Not really relevant as Uber's main market and revenue center is definitely not Brazil...

The important thing is what impact that recession has on the business model. Is the business model counter-cyclical or at least recession resistant? Not all business models perform the same in a recession.
Post reply on HN