Live data from Hacker News

Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

481–490 of 516 posts

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travel across Asia Pacific for work. The global nature of ride hailing apps are convenient in this context in a similar way to MacDonalds (fast, convenient and you kind of know what you’re going to get). Try hailing a cab in Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia. They will ask your destination and quote you 5-10x meter fare. Use a ride hailing app and you get approximately the meter fare.

Speaking for Thailand, the ride hailing apps are usually 1.5x - 2x the price of the meter.

That's fair but the vast majority of cabs I hail refuse to use meter (sometimes quite aggressively).

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#482
post #126

Stupid question: but how is this the case? The fare I pay for an Uber or Lyft seems much higher than the time/car/insurance cost of driving myself ($30-$50 for a 25 min ride to SFO). But the drivers don’t get much of that fare, so I assumed the bulk of the money went to Uber/Lyft. But they’re badly in the red... so where is the money going? I’m missing something here.

> But the drivers don’t get much of that fare, so I assumed the bulk of the money went to Uber/Lyft. Ridestar claims that 61% goes to the driver; 39% to Lyft/Uber.[0] Their S-1[1] shows lots of sales and marketing, lots of R&D (remember, they're working on self-driving cars, among other things), and lots of general/admin (I suspect they spend a lot on legal). [0] https://www.ridester.com/uber-fees/ [1] https://www.se…

Besides the R&D, they hired an army of SV software engineers at top-of-market rate.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#483
post #268
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"R&D" usually includes all engineering expenses on financial reports, which for a company like Uber is the vast majority of operating expenses.

Can I ask something that will sound incredibly naive? How complicated needs to be an IT infrastructure that lets you book a taxi via an app and pay the driver? Is it really something to throw billions at each year? Sometimes I feel these companies are throwing billions in IT simply because they're expected to be disruptive technology companies, and not for real technical reasons.

There are similar, smaller services (like Via, or myTaxi in Europe) that work fine and have nowhere near the money that Uber spends on their tech stack.

Ride sharing is extremely local, so it's not like you need any cleverly scalable tech. Most places will be tracking a few hundred cars at any given moment. Only in very large cities like NYC would you need to spend a little more on big servers.

What Uber presumably does is collect and analyze a lot of real-time data, which isn't strictly necessary to provide the service they're providing.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both Uber, Lyft and (to some extent) Tesla have been working on autonomous cars because it's not an immediately implausible way for them to turn profitable. I personally agree it's a multi-decade (if ever) thing, but if Uber et al. claim they'll have it in 2 years, without facts on the table it boils down to who the investors believe in.

Can they sustain 5B losses for a decade? Can any investor?

Softbank can.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features…

It‘s super easy to call a cab in Germany and they arrive within 5-10 minutes. A lot of them are nice Mercedes. I really don’t see how doing a call that takes ~30 seconds and paying by cash that you carry around anyways (~100€ in cash on hand is super normal in Germany) is any worse than booking a ride through Über.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is possible in the US as well, but depending on where you live this might take a long time, be expensive, or both. Plus, you get no sense of where the cab is. And sometimes cab drivers refuse to go to your neighborhood. Uber solves that.

Does Uber really solve the bad neighborhood problem?

Maybe not fully, but cabs refused to go to good neighborhoods, let alone bad ones.

I live in Queens in a great neighborhood and cabs have "forgot" how to get here more than once. They don't like it because they have a lower chance of a return fare.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#487
I wish more companies did that, effectively trickling down the VC and investor money down to their employees, and preferably the gig workers. We should be encouraging more companies to adopt the Uber model, except we should insist on that gig worker compensation.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features…

It‘s super easy to call a cab in Germany and they arrive within 5-10 minutes. A lot of them are nice Mercedes. I really don’t see how doing a call that takes ~30 seconds and paying by cash that you carry around anyways (~100€ in cash on hand is super normal in Germany) is any worse than booking a ride through Über.

If you go out of Germany you'll see that Germany is pretty unique in it's love for cash. Especially striking when you go north. The more north you go from Germany, the less cash there is, with plenty of places in say Sweden or Estonia where cash isn't even accepted. Thus suddenly having to have cash for a taxi is very jarring. (I don't even remember the last time I paid for anything in cash in Estonia. Definitely more than 10 years ago. On the flipside, every small city restaurant I visited in Germany in 2019 didn't accept cards.)

As for a ~30 second call resulting in a success story, that does sound pretty good indeed.

Let me tell you what my decades of taxi ordering experience in Estonia looks like. I call a taxi company [1], wait about a minute, nobody even picks up the phone. I try another company. I finally get someone to pick up, I tell them where I am, and they proceed to tell me that they have no taxis available. I have to call a new company. Eventually when the 5th company promises to send a taxi, there's a greater than 10% chance that they never show up. Sometimes I call the taxi company and they say the driver went on a break. Other times they say the driver picked up someone else on the way to my location. Sometimes the company has no clue whatsoever why the taxi didn't arrive.

With this old system, whenever I was in a rush, the most time-optimal plan was to run to the closest taxi stop and physically find a taxi.

The arrival of Uber & friends has mostly removed this nonsense. It's all so much more reliable. Although not 100%, sometimes when I'm ordering from a suburb, the driver will call me and ask if I'm willing to pay extra in cash for them to come out. If I say no, they cancel the order.

--

[1] All these calls are to reasonably priced taxi companies, similar to Uber pricing. If I were willing to pay 3x price, there are plenty of premium taxi companies who will come and roll out the red carpet in exchange for your wallet.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features…

It‘s super easy to call a cab in Germany and they arrive within 5-10 minutes. A lot of them are nice Mercedes. I really don’t see how doing a call that takes ~30 seconds and paying by cash that you carry around anyways (~100€ in cash on hand is super normal in Germany) is any worse than booking a ride through Über.

I live in a mid-sized city in the US. Before Uber and Lyft, if I wanted to get a ride, I had to call into a central number (sometimes with a 5-10 minute hold) and then had to schedule a ride. IF someone was available right away, it would typically take 30 minutes for them to arrive - and it's not uncommon for them to simply never show up. The cars are not Mercedes, but your regular utilitarian cabs. What you are describing sounds great, but is far from the norm in the world.

I don't mind cash but I rarely have it on me.

Post reply on HN