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NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

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Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#41
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suit alleges that the investors were defrauded - not the public, or some such. (That would also be absurd, but it isn't relevant anyway, so no point arguing about it.) But the investors made lots of money. It doesn't make sense. The idea that anything Exxon did had a major influence on the debate about the effect of CO2 on climate is ridiculous. Many billions of dollars have been spent on climate research by gove…

Fraud is making money by lying. The fact that the investors made money doesn't negate the fraud. They were unaware of risks that the company knew about. Public companies (emphasis on public ) are required to reveal to all investors the risks of investing in the company. Read any prospectus and you will see that they don't generally hold back, and in many cases go into specific and extensive detail on known risks.

But the possible effect of CO2 on climate was not a secret. It had been widely debated for decades even in 1979.

Now, it is true that companies sometimes state widely known information in their annual reports. Things like "the company's profitability could be affected by a change in consumer tastes that reduces demand for our product". (Not followed by any actual analysis of how likely this is, I note.) I assume such nonsense is due to lawyers trying to defend against other lawyers whose ethics don't deter them from filing lawsuits like this one.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#42
post #26

The main pic in the article strangely looks like a nuclear power plant.

All sorts of power plants have those large cooling towers which have become symbols of nuclear power plants. To me it looks more like a natural gas plant, what with those smaller exhaust stacks next to the cooling towers.

See "natural draft cooling towers": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#44
I'm super worried by these lawsuits. Instead of forcing the oil industry to invest in cleaner energies, to clean the atmosphere by for instance paying for planting massive amount of trees, or even to extract oil more sustainably... They want them to pay investors that were deceived by a fact everybody fucking knew for decades.

Makes me feel we're doomed and incapable of focusing on real challenges.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#45

At first blush, this seems like rough justice to me. Based on cynical assumptions, I'm guessing that the NY AG actually has an axe to grind about ExxonMobil's political/PR efforts regarding climate change, but couldn't pursue them because of First Amendment protections. And so the AG is grasping at other legal straws within the same general topic area.

They knew that their product would mess with the climate and they not only hid this information, but actively lied to convince people of the opposite, all so that they could make more money. And they made an incomprehensible amount of money. This sure sounds like fraud to me, and people have gone to prison for far, far less. Madoff got 150 years in prison for fraud equal to just a couple years of Exxon’s profits.

Rough justice? Maybe for the victims. Exxon should feel very lucky if it stops at losing this lawsuit. Of course, this is the US, where real punishments are reserved for individuals, and large companies are effectively outside the law.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#46
The sad irony is that the pattern of

- knowing the science enough to know they're contributing to others suffering

- knowing what might happen with reasonable certainty

- but compartmentalizing that awareness internally to avoid acting

- hiding it externally

- and keeping doing what they were doing

describes the reactions of most individuals about climate change.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#48
post #46

The sad irony is that the pattern of - knowing the science enough to know they're contributing to others suffering - knowing what might happen with reasonable certainty - but compartmentalizing that awareness internally to avoid acting - hiding it externally - and keeping doing what they were doing describes the reactions of most individuals about climate change.

And actively funding propaganda that delays action.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#49
post #46

The sad irony is that the pattern of - knowing the science enough to know they're contributing to others suffering - knowing what might happen with reasonable certainty - but compartmentalizing that awareness internally to avoid acting - hiding it externally - and keeping doing what they were doing describes the reactions of most individuals about climate change.

[deleted]

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#50
post #43

So it's not that they've endangered the public, or maybe even the environment. It's that they deceived shareholders.

Shareholders are the public, it's a public company.

Shareholders are a subset of the public. I'm probably a member of the class, because I likely hold some shares of Exxon indirectly through index funds.
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