Live data from Hacker News

NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

esquire.com

21–30 of 123 posts

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#21
A likely factor in this lawsuit is the excellent investigative series done by InsideClimate News. They were a finalist for a Pulitzer for this series.

Part [1] covers the beginnings of Exxon's own climate research in the late 70s, and the findings of their scientists, which was approximately accurate to modern climate behavior today, 40 years later. Back in 1979, Exxon outfitted some of their ships with equipment to detect CO2 absorption in the ocean along their routes; Exxon was, at the time, one of the leading climate research organizations in the world.

Part [2] covers some of Exxon's research and findings in more detail.

Part [3] describes the climate models that Exxon's researchers developed in the early 80s, and some of the early decisions that corporate leadership made to downplay the implications of these models and search for other poorly-founded ideas that might rebut them.

Part [4] is about Exxon's discovery of and response to a major CO2 source in the South China Sea.

Part [5] briefly talks about synthetic fuel technology under development in the 1980s and the impact that early climate science might have had on exploring that technology.

And [6] finally gets to the meaty part where, after well over a decade of their own research efforts were telling them otherwise, company executives began a misinformation campaign through the 90s and 2000s, downplaying the certainty of climate science and its potential effects.

You can also explore a pile of internal Exxon documents yourself [7].

The comparison between energy companies and tobacco companies is apt. There is no doubt that, even as Exxon duped an entire legion of people into believing that climate science was "uncertain", internally they had solid research demonstrating the effects their practices would have on the global climate.

It's fair to say that climate change skeptics have been arguing against Exxon's own research. They just didn't know they were arguing against Exxon's research, because Exxon lied, repeatedly, to the public.

Their executives did not want to accept the potential liability associated with the findings of their own internal research.

[1]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/15092015/Exxons-own-resea...

[2]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/16092015/exxon-believed-d...

[3]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-...

[4]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/08102015/Exxons-Business-...

[5]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/08102015/highlighting-all...

[6]: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/22102015/Exxon-Sowed-Doub...

[7]: https://insideclimatenews.org/search_documents?topic=All&pro...

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#22

This is ridiculous. For decades, New Yorkers, like all Americans, have enjoyed the benefits of cheap energy. Exxon and other oil companies are giving consumers what they want.

They lied to the public about side effects of their product. That's ridiculously illegal.

Maybe they did, but this lawsuit isn't about that. The lawsuit claims only that they lied to investors about how they were managing the financial risks of increased climate regulation.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#23

At first blush, this seems like rough justice to me. Based on cynical assumptions, I'm guessing that the NY AG actually has an axe to grind about ExxonMobil's political/PR efforts regarding climate change, but couldn't pursue them because of First Amendment protections. And so the AG is grasping at other legal straws within the same general topic area.

Even if it's neither one, I'd still rather someone with political/socioeconomic power spend time arguing for sound science, rather than against it.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#24
It seems like the big distinction is going to be between "they didn't tell investors that they were a huge climate change contributor" and "they didn't tell investors how much money they'd lose out on from stricter environmental regulation".

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#27
post #6
post #2

sounds like a 5 trillion settlement would be appropriate in this case...

Probably even more than that, when you consider how many more years the planet will be dealing with Exxon's BS, even if they were to cease operations today.

> even if they were to cease operations today

I would be surprised if a 5 trillion fine would not achieve that goal...

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#28
post #4

Source article: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/24102018/exxon-climate-fr... Are there previous examples of a lawsuit over a company misleading shareholders about potential future liabilities, where the liabilities are still unknown? We still don't know how much business Exxon might lose, or how much its penalties might be, as a result of climate change. So how would you calculate which shareholders lost how much?

There's some chance that governments worldwide will decide the costs of transforming the energy base and applying conservation measures, outweigh the benefits of possibly avoiding the increase of 2°C and attendant problems. In that case, Exxon's internal proxy GHG cost projections don't look wrong. Whether it's a securities law violation, different matter.

Re: NY State alleges ExxonMobil knew risks of climate change and defrauded investors

#29

This is ridiculous. For decades, New Yorkers, like all Americans, have enjoyed the benefits of cheap energy. Exxon and other oil companies are giving consumers what they want.

Do consumers want a ruined planet?

After seeing the absolutely bonkers car culture that America has, then yes. At least yes as an implicit result of the lifestyle they cannot or will not stop.
Post reply on HN