Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#341

Post by xster » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #323

xster wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is what worries me about the "mainstream" debate that might be incorrectly framing the whole problem altogether. Here, the rise of the gig economy came from automation. Not in the caricature sense that there are robot automatons that serve your plates in a restaurant, but in a sense that scalable automated processes replaced human dispatchers that answers your phone calls at the taxi companies and radios…

this kind of thinking so vastly underestimates the creative capacity of humans and the amazing nimbleness of the invisible hand, not to mention the sheer vastness of existence itself. humans will work on other, bigger, more varied, and more complex problems. we have not solved the universe yet, let alone understand even the basic workings of biochemical machinery. there is a crap ton of things we can apply our mental…

Ya, rereading what I wrote, I might have missed a part of what I was trying to address.

I don't think anyone is proposing that humans then do nothing and watch VR porn while being tube fed for the rest of their lives. There is indeed an infinite amount of things left to do.

The question is given this 'initial condition' where everyone is where they are currently in 2019, who does that work.

Is it the 56 year old truck driver who's now 100k in the hole for the truck he bought that's now useless with automated trucks and who's using his disability benefits to feed his opiate problems from the painkillers he needed for his back from all the hours in the truck? If he's not the guy we're putting in CERN trying to demonstrate the next Higgs field interaction, what do we do with him?

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#342

Post by vasco » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

apta wrote: post #320

dcchambers wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features…

Question is, which cab app are you going to download, especially when you're traveling? If you use Uber/Lyft (especially the former), you're practically guaranteed that you'll be able to use it at your destination.

Lyft only operates in the US, so that seems like it's not true at least for one of the two.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#343

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #210

dman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate how much were fares before they removed subsidies and after?

It used to be easy to get a Lyft/Uber for $30 from SF to SFO (10 miles). A cab would never be less than $50 (both including tip). I took a Lyft a month ago during peak times and it was $40, so it's still significantly cheaper for me.

[deleted]

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#344

Post by Roritharr » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:17 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #328

Roritharr wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big personal responsibility advocate myself, but I'm also someone who was stumped today trying to pick the best deal on kitchen paper in the supermarket. A market only works efficient when there is information parity, but a small-time Uber driver can't put a data science team on the job to make sure Uber isn't abusing their information advantage, so in this case i'd only find it fair to require them to do those…

Haven't other people already done the analysis as to why driving for Uber is a bad financial decision? The average driver isn't equipped to do the financial analysis, but surely he could do a bit of reading online about a future career.

Honest question: Have you done the numbers on your career? Researched it to some degree that gives you serenity?

Like really doing it in Excel, instead of just looking at ballpark estimates and thinking "yeah that's gonna be enough"?

Many people don't think of themselves and their position in life in this fashion and rather have a moralistic view of the world: "If I work a lot, I'll feed my family!" and just assume that is what is going to happen, based on the values they were taught growing up / in school / on tv.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#345

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #174

toasterlovin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a reason nobody cares about the taxi industry before ride sharing: it was small because it was too expensive for most people to use outside of special circumstances.

I disagree. Expense was never really an issue for me. My issue was always summoning the taxi . I was generally operating in secondary markets like Las Vegas off-strip, San Diego, or Pittsburgh. You couldn't schedule your trip to the airport because you never knew when the stupid taxi would show up. While I hate many things about Uber/Lyft/ridesharing, they changed the customer service expectation of the whole field.…

[deleted]

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#346

Post by anon1m0us » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

xster wrote: post #229

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

I think this is what worries me about the "mainstream" debate that might be incorrectly framing the whole problem altogether. Here, the rise of the gig economy came from automation. Not in the caricature sense that there are robot automatons that serve your plates in a restaurant, but in a sense that scalable automated processes replaced human dispatchers that answers your phone calls at the taxi companies and radios…

Adam Smith addressed this in "The Wealth of Nations." The coal furnace door opening children all got fired when one of them discovered they could tie the door handle to the piston and open the door automatically for the coal shovelers.

This isn't an AI problem. This is an owner vs. employee problem. Advances in technology accrue to the owners at the expense of the employee. This always happens because employees sign over rights to their innovations to the employer in exchange for a short term need for money.

Most people never take the time or spend the money to invest in themselves.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#347

Post by B-Con » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:24 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #180

lacker wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the part where Uber let you get a cab through an app rather than hoping a taxi was driving by and waving your hands at them. It really is a far, far better product when you can get a cab wherever you want, instead of just in a few areas.

Did you know that in most places where cab are operating, you could order a cab to pick you up at your house by calling a cab company and talking to the operator? Flagging down a cab as it drives by is a New York City thing.

Calling is also archaic. Manually tell them my location and wait to hear a price? I'm on the go, I don't want to deal with that crap.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#348

Post by tuesdayrain » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:26 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

Salary and benefits? Seems like you are not concerned about people who benefit from driving for Uber as a part time job.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

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Post by jjeaff » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

chucksmash wrote: post #282

core-questions wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more and more of this planet's 'productivity' is concentrating more and more in the hands of those who produce the AI automations. Sometimes I think folks who think like this really need to get outside more. Yes, a lot of things are being automated, but (a) consider the janky quality of automation, because it's really not mature yet even in purely-software environments where everything can be controlled, and (b) co…

> At what point do I simply say "fuck it" and stop working too, because some ridiculous percentage of my income has to be applied towards feeding those who won't/can't/don't do anything productive? Econ 101 opinion here, so I'm ignoring totally reasonable things like "people work for reasons other than monetary compensation" and assuming you're a rational participant in the economy, but I'd say there is no percentage…

There is a big factor that you are missing when it come to huge taxes. And that is the fact that people, especially the wealthy, are mobile.

Tax the wealthiest 0.01% at 99% and watch how fast they leave the country for low tax regions.

It already happens with people like the Facebook cofounder that renounced US citizenship.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#350

Post by SamReidHughes » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

windexh8er wrote: post #238

eanzenberg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to personal responsibility? Is that out the window as well? Or do we need intervention, similar to how parents point their kids in the proper direction to go?

Personal responsibility works both ways. Just because Uber is an organization doesn't mean they shouldn't be beholden to an ethical, and equal, working arrangement that is fair to both parties. The difference here is, as others have noted, Uber has entire departments devoted to maximizing their profits with little to no care for the driver. It's clear Uber always only wanted human drivers as a way to bootstrap develo…

The reality is that the passengers don’t care about the driver, and the drivers are businesses looking for the highest paying passengers there are, with a choice of Lyft or Uber or any other matching service. This is like how northern America was back when it was full of farmers. People were self-employed, their own masters, and nobody buying their crops owed them charity.