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Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#201

Post by anyfoo »

jngreenlee wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

"In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs" Sure, but neither you or I get to decide that qualification. Only the person doing the job does. We don't really know what fits their lives or what options they have. I don't like gig stuff/sharing economy (or the big 'unicorns' associated with it) either...but it is "another option" for many people that wouldn't have one, esp. lower skill…

I disagree. You assume that all actors have everything that is required for them to make an assessment on their own, which mostly boils down to information and data, but also includes skill, available time, and even to a certain degree little things like the energy they have available to them to make such life decisions (which the poster you replied to included, I think).

That is what we have regulations for.

Do you know and understand what is in your shampoo bottle? What a car needs to come equipped with, not just in obvious safety features but also in its deeper and detailed implementation, to be safe for normal use ("normal use" itself being something you get taught in driving school)? How to build your own house, or even just how to recognize that a building you enter will not fall down onto your head?

I, for myself, am very glad that regulations allow me to just assume certain ground truths in avoiding negative impact, without having to be an expert in every little thing that touches my life.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#202

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

TuringNYC wrote: post #73
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People were willing to pay taxi rates all along Baloney. The market size of people willing to pay taxi rates for transportation is much smaller that the market sizes currently implied by Uber and Lyft's valuation. Before Uber and Lyft, most people I know would only take taxis very occasionally, for special occasions or emergencies. Once Uber and Lyft started offering such good rates they would use ride sharing much…

Consider pool rides -- which were never part of the traditional offerings. Pool rides from Uber/Lyft lowered cost while expanding the market. Consider all the places where you needed a taxi but wouldnt know how to hail one -- Uber/Lyft expanded the market here. I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market g…

I don't really disagree with what you're saying. My point is that Uber's market cap of nearly 75 billion dollars implies they will be taking a lot more of the world's overall transportation budget than, say, pool rides will account for.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#204

Post by indalo »

jngreenlee wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #95

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too. Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions. In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exp…

"In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs" Sure, but neither you or I get to decide that qualification. Only the person doing the job does. We don't really know what fits their lives or what options they have. I don't like gig stuff/sharing economy (or the big 'unicorns' associated with it) either...but it is "another option" for many people that wouldn't have one, esp. lower skill…

I'm sorry but I disagree. Alluding to "maybe not knowing" whether someone wants to do something which has, plenty of times been demonstrated in economical and psychological terms to be detrimental is not a strong argument. It's just tossing a very sheer cover of "we don't know that" and ending there.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#205

Post by Scoundreller »

nradov wrote: post #136
Scoundreller wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber/Lyft are also great when you can expense your trips. Not having to deal with (local) cash or a constantly “broken” credit card machine are also pluses.

Uber and Lyft can now feed receipts directly into corporate expense reporting systems which is a major time saver for frequent business travelers.

There are some hospital EHRs that integrate too, so you can book your patients a ride to/from. If they get there late or don’t arrive, it’s a big cost.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#206

Post by Roritharr »

eanzenberg wrote: post #168
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this misses something crucial to how most of these arrangements work: the worker is unable to put value on the gig. That is the real asymmetry. The gig worker's car wears down, requires gas, oil changes, and gets beat up by the road, but from his perspective he sees $25. Do you think Uber would even try to estimate that number?! (which they almost certainly could). Its essentially capitalization on a huge…

What happened to personal responsibility? Is that out the window as well? Or do we need intervention, similar to how parents point their kids in the proper direction to go?

I'm a big personal responsibility advocate myself, but I'm also someone who was stumped today trying to pick the best deal on kitchen paper in the supermarket.

A market only works efficient when there is information parity, but a small-time Uber driver can't put a data science team on the job to make sure Uber isn't abusing their information advantage, so in this case i'd only find it fair to require them to do those calculations in a transparent manner.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#207

Post by kart23 »

I only like uber/lyft for one very important reason. Drinking. I truly believe its saved a ton of lives thanks to its ease of use. I'm in college right now, and I couldn't even imagine trying to get home without lyft or uber in many circumstances. Its made it so convenient to get a ride at any time, anywhere, that nobody even thinks about driving home anymore. Public transport simply isnt an option at 2am where I live, and the area is not very dense either.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#208

Post by JudgeWapner »

eanzenberg wrote: post #168
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this misses something crucial to how most of these arrangements work: the worker is unable to put value on the gig. That is the real asymmetry. The gig worker's car wears down, requires gas, oil changes, and gets beat up by the road, but from his perspective he sees $25. Do you think Uber would even try to estimate that number?! (which they almost certainly could). Its essentially capitalization on a huge…

What happened to personal responsibility? Is that out the window as well? Or do we need intervention, similar to how parents point their kids in the proper direction to go?

YES! Uber should be personally responsible for reimbursing all costs. I'm glad you get it.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#209

Post by patcon »

eanzenberg wrote: post #168
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this misses something crucial to how most of these arrangements work: the worker is unable to put value on the gig. That is the real asymmetry. The gig worker's car wears down, requires gas, oil changes, and gets beat up by the road, but from his perspective he sees $25. Do you think Uber would even try to estimate that number?! (which they almost certainly could). Its essentially capitalization on a huge…

What happened to personal responsibility? Is that out the window as well? Or do we need intervention, similar to how parents point their kids in the proper direction to go?

Great question. I mean that. But maybe put differently:

> What is happening to personal responsibility?

It sure as heck is changing a lot when powerful players derive algorithmic insight that allows them to know/predict us better than we can ourselves and our communities, plus three things:

1. we can't keep up as individuals, 2. our governments (the last invention that helped us keep up,) can't keep up, and 3. we haven't evolved current institutions (including companies) to keep up on our behalf.

My money is on co-operatives -- democratic companies: [tech] worker co-ops and #platformcoop

We need things to push back, this time not on authority/power/money (old labour organizing days) so much as push back on capacity to know us and render us easily legible and influenced

Here's a place if you care to explore how tech folks are starting to play with this old-as-the-hills stuff that maybe hasn't been urgent enough up until now: https://community.coops.tech

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#210

Post by refurb »

dman wrote: post #13
rainyMammoth wrote: post #8

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

Could you elaborate how much were fares before they removed subsidies and after?

It used to be easy to get a Lyft/Uber for $30 from SF to SFO (10 miles). A cab would never be less than $50 (both including tip).

I took a Lyft a month ago during peak times and it was $40, so it's still significantly cheaper for me.

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