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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

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Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#571
post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have left long ago if flagging had continued to be used to kill topics. Flagging is frequently used to kill topics still. Climate change articles are still flagged mercilessly, before any discussion starts and without regard for the high-quality of the articles. dang as a moderator has specifically said that articles about Russia hacking elections are penalized prior to any votes or comments starting (edit:…

Climate change is discussed a great deal on HN these days; probably more than any other topic: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... Any topic this widespread is going to produce many copycat and follow…

So pretty clearly I have wildly underestimated the amount that flagging is used to suppress stories. Is there some way for me to see which stories are getting flagged and by how much?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#572
post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have left long ago if flagging had continued to be used to kill topics. Flagging is frequently used to kill topics still. Climate change articles are still flagged mercilessly, before any discussion starts and without regard for the high-quality of the articles. dang as a moderator has specifically said that articles about Russia hacking elections are penalized prior to any votes or comments starting (edit:…

Climate change is discussed a great deal on HN these days; probably more than any other topic: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story... Any topic this widespread is going to produce many copycat and follow…

Do you have no comment about the censuring you do of topics like Russian election hacking? To me that is the most violating of your duty, that you preemptively reduce conversation on particular topics.

You replied in depth to every part of my post except that part. Please explain why you have filters on conversation topics but pretend to be impartial moderators.

Does HN have an automatic mechanism to reduce the visibility on stories relating to Russia's physical and digital attacks on American democracy?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#574
Very nice that dang and sctb were involved in such a timely and solid startup idea! If they were luckier, they could have been bought by Google sheets, which acquired XL2Web, DocVerse, Quickoffice in their improvements 2006-2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sheets

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like FAANG employees with 200K+ salaries. At first I was a little amazed that many negative articles and comments about these companies were being down-voted, just notice the latest article on the status of a pregnant employee at Google, where the discussion's focus was very quickly and conveniently moved from how said employee had been mistreated by Google to how bad it is that Google allows its employees to discu…

Even if this was true, wouldn't it be in the best interests of employees from other FAANG companies to upvote these stories?

No. A decrease in Google's share price doesn't increase Facebook's share price. These companies are mostly in the same boat of being large tech companies with significant amounts of power. It's in all of the employees' best interest to suppress stories critical of anything that could be generally applicable to that power structure.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This user seems to be conflating skepticism with denialism. These two groups would take completely different positions on the issues listed (eg. climate change).

When you say "this user" you're talking about Dr Ichikawa, the professor of philosophy? Who specializes in the very topic you're attempting to correct them on? I can't tell if you're serious or if this is just some sort of Poe's Law attempt to satirize the behavior he's pointing out.

The skeptical movement subscribes to critical thinking, empiricism, and applying the scientific model to find answers. To say that skeptics don't believe in climate change is very untrue.

This is contrasted to denialism which denies claims out of hand. This is not based on scientific data, but gut feeling or motivated reasoning.

Dr. Ichikawa is thus describing denialism in his tweets.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_movement

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

edit: Here is an article on the distinction from one of the strongest figures in the skeptical movement, Steven Novella. It even focuses on the topic of climate change.

https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/skeptic-vs-den...

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#577
post #242

Has anyone ever seen an online community (with more than a handful of users) that focuses on more than cute puppy pictures and that is not described as "toxic" by "critics"? I'd say that HN does a great job at avoiding that. The article is titled "moderating hacker news" but fails to describe just how good a job the moderators and owners are doing. The moderators for moderation, and the owners for (as I perceive it)…

Metafilter certainly comes to mind. Though I believe it's well below HN in scale. On Reddit, there are several immensely moderated subs with persistent high quality, and millions of subscribers, notably /r/AskScience and /r/AskHistorians (though also numerous others). Smaller subreddits are relatively easy to maintain at quality, though sustaining engagement is hard (much of the Reddit dynamic actively works against…

I've seen some extremely toxic political discussion on metafilter.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#578
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hacker News moderation is not appealable, not auditable, does not have bright line rules, and there are no due process rights. It simply does not respect individual rights. Yep. After eight years on the site I finally had a comment removed, and my response to dang to discuss it was completely ignored. Made me feel dumb for even trying.

Where did you request that?

In response to your removal message.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#579
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the article, what you are talking about is a different story more "finding the Internet and programming" that isn't really unique to Hacker News. It can surely be used that way, and people likely do, but you can also find those things by searching for "top programming books" (or hanging around twitter, quora, medium or other sites). They did sort of talk about that with the early motivations for Hacker…

I don't see HN as an intro course to programming, but more of like that older kid on the block who you notice is listening to bob dylan, and then you try again, you start to get past that nasally voice, really listening to the lyrics this time, and now you're turned on to a whole world of good music.

[I, honestly, am hostile to n00b accounts discussing non-tech topics.]

I agreed with you from your opening thread until you held high Dylan's lyrics, rather than his instrumentally produced melodies which entranced me in the 80s. Poetry is not legalese or code, and is open to interpretaion.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#580

I liked this article, though I think it missed the best part of Hacker News. To me, Hacker News can feel like walking through Dumbledore's office -- magical and mind-bending collections of incredible devices, ideas, and oddities. Just yesterday someone posted a comment with links to UI design libraries that I've been subconsciously wishing for in my dreams (humaans, undraw.co), and I used it in a product demo. As a s…

This comment is a very measured critique of the article but one need not be so kind. I imagine you may not be doing it our of mere politeness, I get the sense some comments are bending over backwards as a means to not play into the perspective in this article. I won't be so kind: the author imputed every bias they have about a community they know nothing about and played on stereotypes from the beginning and didn't even shy away from saying it:

> Picturing the moderators responsible for steering conversation on Hacker News, I imagined a team of men who proudly self-identify as neoliberals and are active in the effective-altruism movement. (I assumed they’d be white men; it never occurred to me that women, or people of color, could be behind the site.) Meeting them, I feared, would be like participating in a live-action comment thread about the merits of Amazon Web Services or whether women should be referred to as “females.” “Debate us!” I imagined them saying, in unison, from their Aeron chairs.

Imagine wanting to write a piece about any group or any community and having such coarse ideas of who they are and what they believe before you interview them. Do journalists not care about things like biases, cognitive or otherwise and how they can color your opinion of the subject you write about? The sheer lack of self-awareness is part and parcel of the larger problem both people on the right and the left have with the news media in general.

I'm a leftist personally, I tire of the neoliberal bent towards this place too but I have some sense of context and at least try to be aware of how my own worldview can affect the way I understand others. It's always disheartening to read articles, even if they are opinion from authors that really don't even try, even a little--especially when organs like the media, just like tech companies, have a large amount of power and ability to shape public opinion. You have to be looking for toxic and overly reactionary opinions to find them; they do flare up but are generally downvoted/flagged, and given this experience I have, this article really serves as a great example of the Gell-Mann effect as others have pointed out.

Altogether, there are some interesting bits, I had no idea of the personal life stories around dang and sctb, but it was rather painful to wade through the constant recitals of tech bro stereotypes.

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