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Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#91

Post by holler »

standardUser wrote: post #37
rainyMammoth wrote: post #8

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

> they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

Not sure if I agree. The convenience of the Uber/Lyft app's is still superior to a taxi service in most cases. The only time I'll take a cab is if it happens to be right in front of me and I'm in a hurry.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#92

Post by i_cant_speel »

toasterlovin wrote: post #53
_bxg1 wrote: post #28

Fully self-driving cars hit a wall (no pun intended), and that was their only story for eventual profitability. Not surprising.

FWIW, I don’t think self driving cars would have made them a good business. Once you no longer need drivers, all you’re doing is deploying a fleet of automobiles. We already have companies that do this: taxi services and auto rental companies. They’re shitty, low margin businesses with tons of competition. The promise of Uber was being a monopoly because they were first mover on a market with network effects. Much li…

You aren't going to rent a car to take a fifteen minute trip across town, so that isn't really comparable. And yes, they would be a taxi service. But they would be a taxi service with lower costs since they don't need pay for a driver.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#93

Post by bumby »

izzydata wrote: post #33
bluetidepro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to SF, but here in Chicago, they have been gradually getting higher each year. I have consistently taken an Uber to work every morning for about 5 years now, and I used to pay $5-7 for the ride, but now it is $9-12. I will say though, the huge benefit now is their rewards have a "price protection" [1] for some tiers that allow for a cap on that ride price, so I think it can no longer go above $10.99 or…

That seems more expensive than owning a car. Assuming 5 workdays a week and 2 rides per day then that is 40 rides a month on average which could be anywhere from $360 to $480 a month.

As someone who used to work in a major city but now doesn't I think the ride share model makes much more sense in urban areas where you have more obtrusive costs like parking.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#94

Post by toomuchtodo »

beeneuf wrote: post #89
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service. Only until Uber and Lyft run out of cash (a few more quarters based on cash on hand), at which point taxi fares will rise to properly reflect the actual cost of the service. People will choose a combination of walking, public transit, traditional cab companies, and perhaps an e-scooter and/or bicycle. We lived before Uber and Lyft, we'll live…

After my experiences having grown up with cabs, I am honestly willing to pay a significant premium to use Uber and Lyft. It is not an understatement to say that I hate traditional taxis. I hate the terrible service. I hate having them refuse fares based on where I'm going. I hate calling to schedule a pickup in advance and the driver just not bothering to show up. I hate being pressured to pay in cash instead of cred…

With all due respect (I can appreciate paying more for quality, I do so myself!), there are not enough of you to justify rideshare valuations (which are based on taking over the world, not being a boutique transportation network for the discerning mobility user).

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#95

Post by coldtea »

Glad they're down, and hope the whole "gig economy" burns down too.

Where gig economy = padding the loss of decent jobs by replacing the bottom end with desperate deals where "non employed" employees, without regular salary, benefits, company provided work tools, etc., make a pittance, while the organizing company gets a cut from millions of transactions.

In some cases, no jobs is better than subsistence/dead-end/exploitative jobs. At least the former makes the problem evident, and ups the pressure to do something about it on a society/policy/economy level -- as opposed to helping perpetuate it.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#96

Post by ghaff »

throwaway713 wrote: post #76

Stupid question: but how is this the case? The fare I pay for an Uber or Lyft seems much higher than the time/car/insurance cost of driving myself ($30-$50 for a 25 min ride to SFO). But the drivers don’t get much of that fare, so I assumed the bulk of the money went to Uber/Lyft. But they’re badly in the red... so where is the money going? I’m missing something here.

The drivers do get most of the fare--but, properly accounting for costs, a lot of that slice "goes to" their cost of operating the car for the ride.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#97

Post by paxys »

munk-a wrote: post #75

Uber emerged into the market as a disruptor in the absolute worst sense of the world - it was challenging an entrenched industry with low efficiency (cab companies make ungodly amounts of money in some markets) but it did so by playing by a different set of rules - skirting both the disingenuous regulations put in to protect cab companies' profit and those in place for the safety of the general public. Even disregard…

> and those in place for the safety of the general public.

What regulations are these? Is there any case where taking taxis was or is safer for an average customer than Uber?

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#98

Post by throwaway_loss »

jcdavis wrote: post #2

No doubt they are struggling to show a path to profitability, but $3.9B of that is a one-time recognition of all their stock comp which makes look much worse than it should (Assuming that a 1.3B loss is more "normal")

From their S-1:

>We incurred operating losses of $4.0 billion and $3.0 billion in the years ended December 31, 2017 and 2018, and as of December 31, 2018, we had an accumulated deficit of $7.9 billion.

Now they have accumulated a deficit of $13.1B. You might say, well they shrank their loss from $4B to 3B to $1.3B (giving you the extra $3.9B one-time stock comp). Except one has to keep in mind they cut expenses and raised fees in that stretch in anticipation of their IPO, so its literally the best they could do...only lose $13.1B over 3 years.

Investors and Founders made their money, Uber is now for the plebs to figure out how to salvage and milk. It will just be a long and painful death from hereon out, but the market will remain irrational to allow Investors to save face so they can run the same Startup/IPO unicorn scam on the public to cash out.

However, instead of the long painful death, an alternative now that the Investors are out, we may see the regulators finally "catch up" and properly classify Uber drivers as employees not independent contracts and the bottom give out.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#99

Post by i_cant_speel »

avgDev wrote: post #46

The biggest issue with Uber for me is pricing. I like to pay a fair price. Uber uses AI, therefore, you don't pay a fair price. I don't feel like researching options every time I need a ride. Many tech companies hope for lazy consumers, who sign up for food deliveries and don't notice 5c price hike on eggs. Who get used to ride sharing service and fail to ever verify that uber/lyft still offers competitive pricing. I…

I'm assuming by AI you mean adjusting the prices based on supply and demand? What do you suggest as an alternative? If prices don't adjust accordingly, you simply won't be able to get a ride.
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