Live data from Hacker News

Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

nytimes.com

41–50 of 516 posts

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#41
post #26

Biased headline, biased article. 1. 3.9 Bil was a one time cost 2. 1.3 Bil is not almost double 880 Mil. I mean that's just egregious.

Let's say you give me 20 bucks, and I drop it. But only one time. Does that mean I didn't lose your $20?

Let's say I take a piece of paper, tell you that it's worth $20 and give it you. And then you drop it.

Did you lose $20?

That's a closer analogy to SBC than losing cash.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#42

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

> now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

Only until Uber and Lyft run out of cash (a few more quarters based on cash on hand), at which point taxi fares will rise to properly reflect the actual cost of the service.

People will choose a combination of walking, public transit, traditional cab companies, and perhaps an e-scooter and/or bicycle. We lived before Uber and Lyft, we'll live after them. Fun experiment while it lasted.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#43
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused at how that 3.9B could be said not to matter - I'm not familiar with what precisely "recognition of stock comp" means, but I'm going to assume it was either squaring a previously deferred liability - or directly needing to pay out some sort of stock based compensation. Assuming the compensation was for a business need (like hiring labour or purchasing something necessary) then I don't see how that shoul…

Stock based compensation doesn't affect cash flow. It's newly issued stock granted to employees. I'm not sure when the accounting laws changed to include SBC (probably post-financial crisis), but it's weird to include it in an income statement as if it was a cash expense. You can find articles from accounting experts arguing both ways if you are curious. e.g. http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2014/02/stock-based-em…

Income statements show multiple non-cash expenses. There is a reason why both the income statement and the statement of cash flows exist. Stock-based compensation is included as an expense since 2004 (before it was optional to do so, so unsurprisingly companies relegated that disclosure to footnotes).

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#45
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate how much were fares before they removed subsidies and after?

I can't speak to SF, but here in Chicago, they have been gradually getting higher each year. I have consistently taken an Uber to work every morning for about 5 years now, and I used to pay $5-7 for the ride, but now it is $9-12. I will say though, the huge benefit now is their rewards have a "price protection" [1] for some tiers that allow for a cap on that ride price, so I think it can no longer go above $10.99 or…

Same experience here, also in Chicago. I take the bus now it’s much cheaper.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#46
The biggest issue with Uber for me is pricing. I like to pay a fair price. Uber uses AI, therefore, you don't pay a fair price. I don't feel like researching options every time I need a ride. Many tech companies hope for lazy consumers, who sign up for food deliveries and don't notice 5c price hike on eggs. Who get used to ride sharing service and fail to ever verify that uber/lyft still offers competitive pricing.

I don't want to work around it. Therefore, I rarely use these services. It is becoming more and more hassle.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#47

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

I think it's more the massive amount of spending they do with little to nothing to show for it. They spent $457m last year on autonomous and flying cars with $0 in revenue from those projects. Maybe that will work out, but I bet every penny was ultimately wasted.

Not spending billions a year on R&D certainly makes the financials look nicer. It might not attract as nice of a multiple, but it's not the ride prices that are out of whack at Uber IMO.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#48

The recent realization by cities that these services are making traffic worse will induce more regulation which will make these services even less viable than they already are.

I heard on the news yesterday that 13% of all traffic in San Francisco is ride sharing vehicles, and that at any given time there are approximately 5700 ridesharing vehicles cruising around the city. Pretty stunning if you think about it.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#49

Uber and lyft are both on the way down. The price at which they need to operate to be profitable is not a price that most americans are ready to pay. As simple as that. For now they delay this reality by subsidizing rides in order to generate business. In some cities like San Francisco, most incentives were removed and among my friends we all stopped using Uber (unless we really have to). It simply became way too exp…

The service also turned to total shit.

I took my first Uber in 2011. It was amazing. Expensive, to be sure, but the service was amazing. Black Sedan, extremely professional, shows up wherever you want, drops you off wherever you want, never really had to look at GPS. Just amazing.

It was so good I figured I'd never need car again. But it was expensive, so I used it sparingly. I'd take public transit or walk most of the time, but when I needed to get somewhere that didn't go or I needed to get somewhere fast, Uber was there.

Now it's a joke. A total joke. The service is shit. The base tier has people picking you up in minivans that rattle like they are about to fall apart and the people can barely drive… if they pick you up at all. There's like a 50/50 chance it will take 15 minutes for a pickup because the driver will go in the completely wrong direction and then cancel the ride. The "premium" service tiers come with fancier cars, but most driver still have no idea where they are going.

It was good when it was small. It was good when they only had professional drivers with carrier passenger permits and commercial insurance. It made sense. It was good for everyone. It was good when they actually had "drivers", not random people struggling to make minimum wage.

I also try to avoid it.

Re: Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to SF, but here in Chicago, they have been gradually getting higher each year. I have consistently taken an Uber to work every morning for about 5 years now, and I used to pay $5-7 for the ride, but now it is $9-12. I will say though, the huge benefit now is their rewards have a "price protection" [1] for some tiers that allow for a cap on that ride price, so I think it can no longer go above $10.99 or…

That seems more expensive than owning a car. Assuming 5 workdays a week and 2 rides per day then that is 40 rides a month on average which could be anywhere from $360 to $480 a month.

You also have to factor in gas, renting a parking space for the car at home AND at work, taxes, insurance, convenience, etc. It's one of those things like renting. Yeah, in the long run, purely financially, buying would probably be cheaper, but a lot more factors go into it in real life that doesn't make it as black and white. For me, not owning a car is still much better overall, currently.

Also, as I mentioned in another comment, it's just rides to work in the morning. I take public transportation home after work.

Post reply on HN