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Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

theguardian.com

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Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#131

Post by blacksmith_tb »

LeonM wrote: post #89
Fnoord wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record. Source: ex of my partner got busted with too much cannabis in Portugal (whilst living there, and being a regular smoker). In The Netherlands, its 5 gram per person max, and IIRC also 4 or 5 XTC pills (I can't quite remember). Though that information is from '00s. It might've changed, I don't know.

Dutch person here. For weed, the law states a maximum of 5 grams (or 5 plants, if you grow them). For any 'hard' drugs, such as XTC the legal limit is 0. But if you get caught carrying an amount that is small enough to be considered for personal use, the police usually won't act on it. If you carry larger quantities than what is considered personal use, it is usually confiscated and you risk a fine (but only if the p…

And I thought the ratio was odd here in Oregon, where you can possess an ounce (~28g) or four plants - which of course means you likely can't harvest them without going over the limit...

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#132

Post by TelmoMenezes »

EpicEng wrote: post #129
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Safety and insurance implications" are an infinite excuse for employers to abuse you unless you have a legal system to protect you from asymmetrical power relationships.

Uh huh. I'll remember that the next time a ton of bricks falls on my head when passing a construction site. Do you have any reason to believe this is an actual, honest to God, widespread problem?

> Uh huh. I'll remember that the next time a ton of bricks falls on my head when passing a construction site.

Was it a common occurrence in the US, that construction workers would cause accidents because of smoking cannabis? And btw, do you know of any study showing a negative correlation between drug testing and accidents? Or is this more "lie detector"-style "science" -- an excuse to stick your nose in other people's private affairs?

> Do you have any reason to believe this is an actual, honest to God, widespread problem?

Yes, my professional experience. American workers seem to find intrusive practices such as drug testing perfectly normal, exactly in the way that you are expressing. In Europe, such tests are much more regulated, as well as many other forms of abuse of power by the employer, and yet I never had any problems with bricks falling over my head.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#133

Post by thecleaner »

Krasnol wrote: post #69
YippRino wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doubting you, but what's the sample size here? Pretty interesting that regional differences like this do exist in some places. And anecdotally, friend of mine spoke pretty highly of Bavaria after a (very) short trip.

I can confirm that and I'm there regularly for business. I assume it's because it's pretty much the pearl of the region (Bavaria) and if you take this away there is not much left. Also the city is full of pretty rich people who tend to this kind of behaviour. You see the same in people where the location of the city is similar like Warsaw in Poland for example being surrounded by backwater villages.

Just one question. In a city with high rents and salaries which never go above 80k how are these people so full of themselves ? Low wages is a German problem but at least cost of living is under control in several places.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#134

Post by Fnoord »

LeonM wrote: post #89
Fnoord wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record. Source: ex of my partner got busted with too much cannabis in Portugal (whilst living there, and being a regular smoker). In The Netherlands, its 5 gram per person max, and IIRC also 4 or 5 XTC pills (I can't quite remember). Though that information is from '00s. It might've changed, I don't know.

Dutch person here. For weed, the law states a maximum of 5 grams (or 5 plants, if you grow them). For any 'hard' drugs, such as XTC the legal limit is 0. But if you get caught carrying an amount that is small enough to be considered for personal use, the police usually won't act on it. If you carry larger quantities than what is considered personal use, it is usually confiscated and you risk a fine (but only if the p…

I worked in a coffeeshop. The maximum we were allowed to have was higher than 5 grams. I'm not sure how high it exactly was. The maximum we were allowed to sell a person was 5 gram.

We had odd ways to go around the police. Once in a year they'd show up, in numbers. Some kind of yearly ritual. Our main trick was to accidentally throw down a trash bin in such a case so that the "refiller" (trusted middle man with social skills who sat between the growers and me) would know that he shouldn't show up. All the stash was stored just 2 floors above the shop in a civilian apartment floor. He'd hear the noise through the heating pipe.

I'm glad I quit because, quite frankly, I didn't have the social skills for this job (autism, lack of balls for the semi criminal cirtcuit, street slang, etc). I felt my co-employees and boss were more focused on sales than on proper guidance of tourists. I've refused to sell people (especially spacecake) based on maturity/knowledge signals I picked up. Though that wasn't the main reason why I quit I'm glad I don't have to feel guilty for that anymore (because there's always a losing party to such decision).

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#135

Post by detritus »

mrzool wrote: post #115
detritus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at around the same time made magic mushrooms completely illegal, whereas prior there had been a workaround leading to a healthy market. The tragedy of this late Labour-era push against loosening /smarting-up of drug legislation is that it fairly directly led to the boom in synthetic cannabinoids, starting with the fairly benign Spice (as a brand) and resulting in a swathe of much-stronger, less-tested and more da…

Workaround == loophole?

That's another way to put it, of course :)

The law specified dried mushrooms specifically as the stance skirted complexities regarding the picking or possession of native wildlife samples (psilocybe semilanceata predominently).

With kits offering the ability to grow easier-to-grow strains from elsewhere in the world (Central and South America principally) we sought clarification from the Home Office on whether it was actually illegal to possess and sell fresh magic mushrooms. Turns out, there wasn't anything illegal in that. Made for an interesting few years.

We assumed a change or clarification in the law at some point, so prepared for a time when sale of fresh mushrooms per se would be outlawed. We never expected them to come down as hard as they did though, so the survival/back up plan of forming a small laboratory to grow mycelium and take spore prints and cater to an enthusiast market was all for naught.

Strange to think at the time that we thought we were on the verge of the UK being at the front of the line for a change in stance on cannabis and drugs generally, but Mr. Brown took us down a different path.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#136

Post by vinay427 »

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #117
refurb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those jobs requiring testing for safety reasons (but not all). Are you suggesting the US isn't the land of the free because people aren't free to come to work intoxicated and potentially endanger their colleagues?

No, I am saying that the US isn't the land of the free because, in practice, you seem to live under immense scrutiny and oppression when compared to other western countries. No privacy over even your own body, no job security, no health care without a job, no holidays.

That isn't the freedom that people refer to with respect to the US, and I would argue that this sense of freedom is far less self-evident and is reliant on more social conventions.

In short, it's freedom from a government, which isn't too surprising considering the places in which "free" is used and the history behind the formation of the country.

It should be fairly clear, then, when you consider that the freedom refers to lower government intervention in the actions of people, and sometimes a hostility towards this intervention.

This concept isn't really unique to the US, though other developed countries tend to have a less extreme approach in most practical areas. Switzerland, for instance, is usually an exception compared to its neighbors when it comes to privatization, healthcare, parental leave, etc. and a similar justification of reduced government intervention and more freedom of choice is often used here.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#137

Post by 99052882514569 »

wincy wrote: post #87
frayesto wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sucks in the US is that cannabis is still federally illegal. So you if work in a government job/military, or smoke on federal property you can be charged with a crime

Also some large companies will fire you if you test positive for it even if you work in a state where it’s legal.

Companies are allowed to fire you for things that are not illegal.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#138

Post by 99052882514569 »

rolltiide wrote: post #93
frayesto wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sucks in the US is that cannabis is still federally illegal. So you if work in a government job/military, or smoke on federal property you can be charged with a crime

If you live in a Federal park in San Francisco, CA you can have your living permit revoked, possibly charged The whole country is a patchwork right now

Consistency of laws across jurisdictions is not exactly what comes to mind when one thinks of the US legal system.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#139

Post by rolltiide »

99052882514569 wrote: post #138
rolltiide wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a Federal park in San Francisco, CA you can have your living permit revoked, possibly charged The whole country is a patchwork right now

Consistency of laws across jurisdictions is not exactly what comes to mind when one thinks of the US legal system.

yeah but (aside from reservations that few people encounter) the different jurisdictions usually they aren't enclaves with radically different instructions

this is a stark and growing area of conflicts of laws

the constitution is setup to avoid this issue, but it is current irreconcilable on the topic of weed as the federal government derives its power from a consensus of the collective states.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#140

Post by celdon25 »

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #127
pixelpoet wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But obviously not testing for coffee, because that drug (although it can be deadly and habit forming) makes people work harder. Perfectly reasonable. And don't forget, "only losers do drugs"...

Yes, and a bunch of harder drugs that destroy lives and are much more dangerous than cannabis, but perfectly fine because some big corp is making billions selling it. No security implications there. Of course, by security, it is meant "security against lawsuits". Actual human beings don't really matter in this equation.

Crony capitalism bothers me as much as anybody, but it's the Americans with Disabilities act is what protects workers from retaliation for using prescription controlled drugs. And I don't picture that as a law that is rooted in corruption.
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