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Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

theguardian.com

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Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#71

Post by JFFalcon »

pmoriarty wrote: post #68
Fnoord wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record. Source: ex of my partner got busted with too much cannabis in Portugal (whilst living there, and being a regular smoker). In The Netherlands, its 5 gram per person max, and IIRC also 4 or 5 XTC pills (I can't quite remember). Though that information is from '00s. It might've changed, I don't know.

"Decriminalization. If you have too much on you, you still end up with a record." From the article, it sounds like Luxembourg is the same: "those who break the more generous laws will be hit with harsh penalties under the plan"

I think that was referring to 12-17 year olds.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#72

Post by Krasnol »

salsadip wrote: post #70
thecleaner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I found Bavaria to be much more snobbish in general. For example, point out something funny about them and they immediately go on the defensive, however everyt time they say something rude and you point it out, they play the German honesty card. Never had such a problem with Berlin or Frankfurt.

„Ohh Frankfurt is so ugly!“ first thing I heard when I said where i was from. Didn‘t care much for it but the bluntness dumbfounded me

You can't really blame the people. Especially if they arrive by train and end up in one of the worse (the worse?) parts of the city.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#73

Post by BurningFrog »

emsy wrote: post #67
lawlorino wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary: we welcome it it open doors. Well good for you, but as someone who lives in the centre of Amsterdam I can understand the motivation to discourage drug tourism. Edit: to clarify it's not the reams of tourists getting high in coffee shops that I have a problem with, but the knock-on effects of it. Tourists treat the city like an adult themepark and recently the city council have been taking steps to…

Amsterdam is still clean and quiet compared to other major cities. To be honest, I suspect the main factor to be the red light district. Just visit the Reeperbahn in Hamburg. I'd argue it's much worse and they don't offer legal weed. To be clear, I'm not arguing for or against prostitution, but against prostitution as a tourist attraction.

It's hard to see how you can have prostitution and it not be a tourist attraction.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#74

Post by pmoriarty »

mettamage wrote: post #43
paol wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumption is legal, sale is not. That's what "decriminalization" usually describes, as opposed to "legalization" Edit: but sale of cannabis is legal in the NL, under some conditions.

No it's not. It's illegal by law [1, 2] (Dutch sources). The supply chain is definitely still illegal. In short you have (making these terms up): 1. Growers who produce and distribute the weed, 2. Runners who pick it up and bring it to the coffeeshop, 3. Coffeeshops It's only legal for the coffeeshops to sell. This sometimes devolves to a game like tag. The runners need to go as fast to the coffeeshop as possible in…

"The runners need to go as fast to the coffeeshop as possible in the most stealthy way. If the police catch them, then they are in trouble. However, if they bring it into the coffeeshop, they are safe."

Is that really true? If the police wanted to, all they'd have to do is search any courier who comes in to the shop, or use video surveillance inside or outside the shop. There are infinite ways to try to crack down on sale and distribution, if they wanted to. But they don't seem to want to, and focus their resources on fighting "hard drugs" rather than cannabis.

On the other hand, some years back there was news that the conservative government was forcing the closure of a lot of coffeshops, and that there's been a backlash from the locals against drug tourists from other countries flooding their country, making a mess, getting in to fights, vomiting in their flowerpots, and just generally being annoying. They of course bring in lots of tourist revenue, but I guess the Dutch don't value that as much as they used to.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#75

Post by thecleaner »

YippRino wrote: post #63
thecleaner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I found Bavaria to be much more snobbish in general. For example, point out something funny about them and they immediately go on the defensive, however everyt time they say something rude and you point it out, they play the German honesty card. Never had such a problem with Berlin or Frankfurt.

Not doubting you, but what's the sample size here? Pretty interesting that regional differences like this do exist in some places. And anecdotally, friend of mine spoke pretty highly of Bavaria after a (very) short trip.

Like 6 or 7 with no variance actually. Hence the strong statement.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#76

Post by bregma »

adrianN wrote: post #31
bregma wrote: post #5

The dominoes fall, one by one. The upside is that the wealth from legal cannabis sales will now flow through to the rich white men where it belongs rather than to the minority folk who dominate the black market.

The poor minority folks leading organized crime.

I walk into a cannabis store near me and see young white people behind the counter, and I know the license holder is a wealthy white person (because it's public record). I know the company running the government website where I can buy online is owned and run by a bunch of rich white men (because it's a public company) and most its employees are well-educated, well-to-do white men because I know many of them personally. I know the government that owns the distribution and licensing channels and collects the excise taxes is mostly rich white men because I voted. I know the corporations that produce wholesale cannabis are owned and run by wealthy white men because I own stock and get the annual reports.

I see dealers in the local park. They don't tend to be wealthy white men, and they don't tend to be the people running the organized crime either. The organized crime will just move into more profitable areas like phishing scams and bond ratings agencies. It's the dealers on the street who suffer the most from the legalization of the recreational cannabis trade.

I definitely see legalization as best for society as a whole. I'm just uncomfortable with yet another way the cream floats to the top.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#77

Post by frayesto »

99052882514569 wrote: post #65
emptyfile wrote: post #26

Bravo, and here's hoping that other countries follow. I was recently shocked to discover that my backwards eastern european country is one of the few in the EU that has even decriminalized drugs; I genuinely thought that this was standard in the EU but apparently not, see this map https://i.imgur.com/A0JICkk.jpg

Here's a better map, because it breaks down the US by state and is more up-to-date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis#/media/Fi...

What sucks in the US is that cannabis is still federally illegal. So you if work in a government job/military, or smoke on federal property you can be charged with a crime

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#78

Post by luckylion »

phaemon wrote: post #17
reallydontask wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A genuine question, Aren't all EU citizens supposed to be treated equally across the EU? How would such a ban work?

They are being treated equally. A citizen of France who is resident in Luxembourg would be able to purchase. A citizen of Luxembourg who is resident in France, wouldn't. You can have rules that apply only to residents, but they have to be applied to any resident.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Germany's personal car toll system was supposed to be offset by a rebate on car taxes that would benefit any resident (or more precisely: anybody paying their car taxes in Germany) and was found to be in violation of EU regulations. Are there special cases for tax rebates or what would have been the difference?

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#79

Post by delecti »

lawlorino wrote: post #42
bregma wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada shares a border with the USA (where persecution of cannabis use is a billion-dollar profitable industry) and has made no effort to dissuide cannabis tourism. On the contrary: we welcome it it open doors.

> On the contrary: we welcome it it open doors. Well good for you, but as someone who lives in the centre of Amsterdam I can understand the motivation to discourage drug tourism. Edit: to clarify it's not the reams of tourists getting high in coffee shops that I have a problem with, but the knock-on effects of it. Tourists treat the city like an adult themepark and recently the city council have been taking steps to…

I think the relatively small size (land area and population) of the Netherlands and the length of time that things have been going on have both contributed to that. A country newly legalizing pot probably has a lot less to worry about WRT rambunctious tourists.

Re: Luxembourg to be first European country to legalise cannabis

#80

Post by davvolun »

BurningFrog wrote: post #73
emsy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amsterdam is still clean and quiet compared to other major cities. To be honest, I suspect the main factor to be the red light district. Just visit the Reeperbahn in Hamburg. I'd argue it's much worse and they don't offer legal weed. To be clear, I'm not arguing for or against prostitution, but against prostitution as a tourist attraction.

It's hard to see how you can have prostitution and it not be a tourist attraction.

If prostitution was legal, or decriminalized (I believe sex workers and advocates prefer decriminalization over legalization), everywhere, it wouldn't be much of a tourist attraction.
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