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New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

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Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#171

Post by BrianNYC »

wmf wrote: post #89
musicale wrote: post #83

This is interesting - it says that they are connected to an internet exchange point (IXP), which means presumably they are their own AS and don't pay for peering. It makes them basically a peer of Verizon, etc.. It's a bit of a reminder of what the internet actually is - a bunch of networks connected together. If you make your own network, negotiate or purchase a piece of the IPv6 address space, and convince someone…

Your terminology is a little loose there. Generally large ISPs like Verizon will not peer with random small ISPs. Even if you're connected to an IXP you still have to pay for transit if you want to reach the whole Internet.

Yes, I don't think Verizon would peer with us, but we peer with some very large companies like Google, Apple, Akamai. The full list is here- https://www.nycmesh.net/peering

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#173

Post by ohples »

Seb-C wrote: post #160

I love this idea and concept, and I hope it will work well and expand. But if such a concept were to work and expand to big cities, I wonder what will happen to people living outside big cities... While I don't know anything about the US market, I also wonder what is the motivation to make this project at home instead of mobile-based. Since we all have super-powerful computers in our pockets, it seems to me that we c…

Are you talking about turning smartphones into mesh network routers? I would imagine this would kill your battery rather quickly.

Also, it would probably require rooting the phone to install the necessary routing software.

There are a whole host of other reasons but those two are the easiest to explain.

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#174

Post by BrianNYC »

srram wrote: post #121

If rain effects it, it is millimeter waves. Probably some kind of LMDS (point to multipoint) wireless network

My quote was a bit out of context. I was talking about how if it rained my old Time Warner Cable ("Spectrum") connection would go down for a day. This is a known TWC problem in downtown Manhattan.

NYC Mesh is having a different problem with very heavy rain where two of our high speed point-to-point connections (60GHz and 24GHz) will go down for like 20 minutes in very heavy rain. We're working on fixing this.

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#175

Post by BrianNYC »

CodexArcanum wrote: post #8

I've been very intrigued by their efforts for some time now. Last time I read about NYC Mesh, it sent me down a rabbit hole of research into mesh networks and what it takes to found an ISP. I'd love to replicate their efforts in NOLA, but the legal and technical hurdles are tricky! When I had looked into it, these resources had been helpful for research: Wireless Networking in the Developing world -- http://wndw.net/…

The main problem is organizing. Legal and technical problems are easy by comparison. I wrote a guide here for starting your own network- https://www.nycmesh.net/blog/how/

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#177

Post by fragmede »

thinkloop wrote: post #151
jkilpatr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone "forwarding" packets from a connection to an ISP is almost certainly in breach of contract. You can buy resaleable backhaul it's just a drag and expensive. NYC mesh gets free resaleable backhaul and it's a key thing for them. > Amateur packet radio service regulations state that you may not use it for applications that are available over commercial services. point to point long distance antennas on free spec…

> NYC mesh gets free resaleable backhaul Why/how is it free? How much is it typically? Do all/most cities have "backhaul" easily available? Isn't backhaul owned by ISPs as well and basically like a fat pipe? A barrage of questions, but I'm quite interested!

NYC, among very few other places in the US, actually has some insanely good options for business grade (and priced) connectivity. (HFTs pay for very high speed connectivity.) As for why it's free to NYC mesh, I don't know. Pet project of an employee?

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#178

Post by IloveHN84 »

rndgermandude wrote: post #20

There were (maybe still are) tons of such mesh networks run by small commercial operators in Germany's rural areas, usually using directional radio to create connections between villages and then meshing all the wifi consumer routers to span wifi over the village. They did that/do that because the major commercial providers (i.e. Telekom) weren't exactly fast laying fiber to these villages. A buddy of mine used to ru…

But how does it work with the internet connection? You need a massive incoming bandwidth (a 500/1000Mbps Internet connection form ISP?) To share it with others?

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#179

Post by newguy1234 »

woah wrote: post #66

Shameless plug: My company Althea ( https://althea.net ) is making router firmware that makes it easy to people to set up incentivized mesh networks in their communities. It allows routers to pay each other for bandwidth which means that everyone hosting a node earns money for the packets they forward. We have 2 networks live, one in rural Oregon and one in Medellin, Colombia. Also, 4 more networks people are current…

I had this exact idea a few years back. Great to see someone working on it! Brilliant! I could actually use this service at my work. Being able to pay 25 cents/gb on my mobile would be amazing, especially if it is really fast speeds.

Re: New York City Neighbors Build Cheaper Way to Connect to Web

#180

Post by newguy1234 »

corey_moncure wrote: post #96
chadwittman wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love the project! Why does my intuition suggest big ISPs are going to try to regulate this out of existence in the US. It's depressing.

It's already illegal twice over. Anyone "forwarding" packets from a connection to an ISP is almost certainly in breach of contract. Amateur packet radio service regulations state that you may not use it for applications that are available over commercial services.

Couldn't this just be solved by simply encrypting all traffic similar to an onion router setup? Could also be solved by the users just using some sort of VPN which encrypts all traffic. How is the ISP suppose to know you're forwarding traffic?
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