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Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

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Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#71

Post by _fzslm »

e12e wrote: post #69
nextos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this new format is nice because it requires no tools to install, like most other components e.g. RAM. In contrast, current M2 NVMe have this annoying screw that requires a fairly specialized screwdriver and tends to get stuck in some motherboards. Not a good design. So Toshiba's new form factor looks like a step forward.

What kind of ram requires tools to install? (apart from the stuff that's soldered on..)

I think they mean that, like RAM (and other components like CPU, SATA drives, etc.), this drive doesn't require any tools to install.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#73

Post by segfaultbuserr »

nextos wrote: post #51
Sileni wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything. Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

It sucks. Lots of NUCs come with a very small capacity Optane drive already installed. Many users want to replace it with a regular SSD. The nasty surprise is that the screw is overtightened. So when they try to unscrew it, a common outcome is to ruin the motherboard.

Some laptop modding anecdotes: Thinkpad X61's mini-PCIe Wi-Fi adapter has the same problem and is well-known among hardware modding users - the screw is tightened and glued in place. When someone tries to unscrew it, one must carefully apply a torque with a high-quality screwdriver, otherwise the consequence is ruining the screw. I made the mistake and killed that screw when I first encountered that screw.

Fortunately there was a simple fix: just use a Dremel tool to cut the screw through the circuit board of the Wi-Fi adapter. The PCB of the Wi-Fi adapter is ruined, but you can now replace it and install a new screw without a problem. (and I think the ground plane is under the screw, just copper without other traces, so the original card may even be fully working, but if you've spent so much trouble to remove it for your upgrade, it's definitely not something you'd like to continue using...)

Since then I went to get a set of high-quality screwdrivers and never had the same problem on other similar machines.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#74

Post by undersuit »

grenoire wrote: post #68
wtallis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it a bit odd how most motherboards seem to use M2 screws, but most of the add-in card M.2 adapters I've dealt with use M3 screws, and the M.2 spec only talks about M3 screws.

In the end the size of the screw doesn't matter as long as it fits in the hole. Your M.2 isn't going to just pop out because the screw is half a millimeter smaller in radius!

Half a Millimeter is huge! Just finished replacing a part of my truck that required a 5.5mm socket. I had a 5mm, 6mm, 1/4, and 3/16, none of them worked.

The M.2 slot requires downward pressure.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#75

Post by lostsock »

diabeetusman wrote: post #64
bufferoverflow wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast external storage. This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high resolution video. BMPCC4K…

Of course, the RED mags that you're referring to just use normal SATA with the pins moved around.

For context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJXu4K1igg

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#76

Post by Ididntdothis »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #54
pathartl wrote: post #52

Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not a huge deal, is pretty neat. In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on…

Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast external storage. This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high resolution video. BMPCC4K…

What’s the power needs of an SSD vs an SD card?

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#77

Post by mffnbs »

close04 wrote: post #37
akira2501 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither the connector itself nor the implementation are innovative. This is a market innovation, not a technical one.

So this slide [0] describing the connector's design, manufacturing, and operation, with a bullet list of mechanical and electrical features refers to a "market innovation"? [0] https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14711/Screen%20Shot%202019...

The marketing slides? Ye

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#78

Post by kalleboo »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #54
pathartl wrote: post #52

Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not a huge deal, is pretty neat. In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on…

Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast external storage. This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high resolution video. BMPCC4K…

Because having a USB drive hanging off the side of your laptop is a PITA, having to unmount it to disconnect before packing your laptop, etc.

This new form factor changes nothing for cameras since cameras have proprietary storage for the sole reason of squeezing producers for more cash. RED mags just have cheap (not even high-end) M.2 SATA SSDs inside them, and the camera has a DRM check to ensure that it's one sold by them so you can't just swap it out for a higher capacity one.

Why would they ever adopt an open standard when they can charge thousands of dollars for a proprietary one instead?

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#79

Post by bobwaycott »

bayindirh wrote: post #31
throwaway542134 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the connector is the problem but the devices you connect to. RPis are notorious for having a poor lifespan due to reading/writing from the SD cards, but I think that's mostly due to the cost tier of a $30 computer.

I'm running a batch of SBCs which boot from SD cards as home or forgettable servers. None of them died due to SD card failure yet. A good SD card with a little optimization keeps the flash media wear out at bay.

What little optimizations?

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#80

Post by astrodust »

AmVess wrote: post #67
gameswithgo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on most motherboards you could probably leave the screw off and it would be fine forever. not that I've done that. yet.

The connector requires a small amount of downward force to slot the nvme device. Without a screw, the device can easily pop out of the slot.

If only engineers working on that sort of product had some kind of way of using a plastic tab or something to hold things into place. Like have lunch with the memory socket or PCIe people and talk shop.
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