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Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

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Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#51

Post by nextos »

Sileni wrote: post #50
nextos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this new format is nice because it requires no tools to install, like most other components e.g. RAM. In contrast, current M2 NVMe have this annoying screw that requires a fairly specialized screwdriver and tends to get stuck in some motherboards. Not a good design. So Toshiba's new form factor looks like a step forward.

I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything. Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

It sucks. Lots of NUCs come with a very small capacity Optane drive already installed. Many users want to replace it with a regular SSD. The nasty surprise is that the screw is overtightened. So when they try to unscrew it, a common outcome is to ruin the motherboard.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#52

Post by pathartl »

Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not a huge deal, is pretty neat.

In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on storage. There's the cooling issue, but looking at something like the MacBook I could see it integrated into the CPU block or even the bottom case. Hell, if they did the bottom case it might even give some support to the logic board and they won't have as many issues with the board flexing. No rubber pads needed!

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#53

Post by DanBC »

Sileni wrote: post #50
nextos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this new format is nice because it requires no tools to install, like most other components e.g. RAM. In contrast, current M2 NVMe have this annoying screw that requires a fairly specialized screwdriver and tends to get stuck in some motherboards. Not a good design. So Toshiba's new form factor looks like a step forward.

I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything. Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

They're M2 x 3mm? That's small but not ridiculous.

Place a magnet on the screwdriver blade.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#54

Post by bufferoverflow »

pathartl wrote: post #52

Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not a huge deal, is pretty neat. In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on…

Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast external storage.

This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high resolution video. BMPCC4K was the first (very affordable) camera that allowed recording directly into a USB SSD.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#55

Post by solarkraft »

throwaway542134 wrote: post #24
shawnz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it better than SD Express though, which also supports PCIe and is backwards compatible with existing cards?

I don't think the connector is the problem but the devices you connect to. RPis are notorious for having a poor lifespan due to reading/writing from the SD cards, but I think that's mostly due to the cost tier of a $30 computer.

> RPis are notorious for having a poor lifespan due to reading/writing from the SD cards

How does the Raspberry Pi deteriorate from the interaction with the SD card?

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#56

Post by wtallis »

DanBC wrote: post #53
Sileni wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything. Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

They're M2 x 3mm? That's small but not ridiculous. Place a magnet on the screwdriver blade.

I find it a bit odd how most motherboards seem to use M2 screws, but most of the add-in card M.2 adapters I've dealt with use M3 screws, and the M.2 spec only talks about M3 screws.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#57

Post by pathartl »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #54
pathartl wrote: post #52

Something that I think people are glancing over, this has some huge potential in the laptop / pro tablet space. I don't think someone like Apple would ever move to something like this, but standard NVMe mounting solutions are probably taller than they need to be. This is also a screwless solution which while not a huge deal, is pretty neat. In my eyes, this sort of connector gives manufacturers no reason to solder on…

Who cares about laptops and tablets? They already have fast ports. You already can put a real NVMe drive into a USB enclosure and get ridiculously fast external storage. This new form factor would be perfect for cameras that shoot RAW video or high-bandwidth video. Until recently you'd need to buy very expensive and fast SD cards or proprietary RED mags to be able to record high quality high resolution video. BMPCC4K…

Seeing as how most premium laptops today are using some sort of PCI-E storage... I would say professionals that are using their laptops as workstations care. This isn't an interconnect made for external use per se, but for replaceable storage. In the article it specifically is mentioned as a replacement for soldered BGA storage. The way the mechanism works (which is very similar to old full size SIM card slots on old feature phones) is meant to act as a more permanent socket than something like a spring loaded SD card slot or USB port. It's more akin to a CPU socket.

For laptops and tablets this could be a huge move, partially because of the user-serviceable upgrade potential, but also because of data recovery. Instead of the flash chips and their controller being on the same board as the CPU, GPU, muxes, power management systems, etc, they can now fit in a secure, low profile and low footprint socket. Take newer MacBook Pros for instance. They have soldered on storage and no way to access that data if the logic board dies. Previously, Apple had outfit the board with a "lifeboat" connector that allows for data transfer from the soldered on storage (assuming it's still intact) without having a fully working board.

Louis Rossmann, of course, went over this in a video just a couple days ago. He had a customer that sent a machine in that is a few-months-old MacBook Pro 13". It has a dead T2 chip which renders the entire logic board useless. There is no way (short of desoldering the flash chips and possibly putting it on a working donor board, but then you run into a whole slew of other issues) to recover data off of that machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9en4I-tjA

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#58

Post by stan_rogers »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #48
ricardobeat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SATA, M2, now this. What other interfaces are there?

Less common and I might be mangling terminology , but there's also PCIe, PCIe-Mini, mSATA, SATA Express (same connector as SATA). There's also a variety of m.2 form factors

Don't forget U.2 - NVMe in a (usually) 2.5" form factor.

Re: Toshiba Introduces New Tiny NVMe SSD Form Factor

#59

Post by gameswithgo »

Sileni wrote: post #50
nextos wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this new format is nice because it requires no tools to install, like most other components e.g. RAM. In contrast, current M2 NVMe have this annoying screw that requires a fairly specialized screwdriver and tends to get stuck in some motherboards. Not a good design. So Toshiba's new form factor looks like a step forward.

I refuse to replace my NVMe for this reason alone. That screw is going to get stuck somewhere and I'm going to have to take the motherboard out completely to get it, hoping the whole time I didn't fry anything. Why. Why make a screw that small. It's torture.

on most motherboards you could probably leave the screw off and it would be fine forever. not that I've done that. yet.
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