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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#641

Post by ArlenBales »

Smithalicious wrote: post #215

This once again goes to show that you can do nothing illegal and still be virtually locked out of the internet. The viewpoint that "it's okay to kick 8chan off the internet" is not consistent with the viewpoint that "the internet should be neutral infrastructure". Take from that what you will. People are doing the "yada yada not entitled to a platform" thing, but the distinction between free speech and having a platf…

> We need to allow people on the edges of the spectrum to say what they want even if it is without merit

Those people can say whatever they want, but no other individual or company needs to allow them the soapbox to do it.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#642

Post by alkonaut »

tomohawk wrote: post #597
tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

[flagged]

I don't think Mao or Stalin were ever lacking free speech, and I don't think any of those killed ever voted to abolish it. Saying "look communism bad lots dead" doesn't universally work as an argument.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#643

Post by faissaloo »

freefolks wrote: post #633
Joeri wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person can be sound and rational but people are tribal. It is deep human drive to find a tribe to belong to. What the internet has enabled is forming tribes irrespective of geographic proximity. Sites like 4chan/8chan allow people of radical persuasions to find each other and band together, growing their That creates a powder keg waiting on a fight/flight trigger. Without a tribe to back someone, such a trigger wil…

There is high chance that most of those in these groups don't even believe in most of the stuff they say. To them its just entertainment. People participate only because its a throwaway identity that is noncommittal. These groups have no leadership or loyalty. I'm sure this is understood a majority of the time by participants. The problem is that one individual who memes way too hard or is absolutely serious about th…

This sentiment is not at all applicable to 8chan, most people are very serious.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#644

Post by jredwards »

ddebernardy wrote: post #375
tepidandroid wrote: post #139

My opinion is that freedom of speech is a fine ideal to strive for, but it relies on having a stable society with some minimum level of education (moral and philosophical too, not just the technical kind). It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it. It creates a moral duty for the peopl…

Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down. The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis th…

> clearcut in a you know it when you see it kind of way.

"clearcut" and "you know it when you see it" seem like polar opposite concepts to me.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#645

Post by pritambaral »

greglindahl wrote: post #632
irrational wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut What is that criteria? Because I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant. Would you agree that saying that a baker in Colorado must make a cake for a gay wedding is intolerant of the baker's belief? Because I'm certain a sizeable proportion of the US population would agree that it is intolerant.

A majority of the US population was tolerant of refusing service to N——--—— when it became illegal. Put another way, it’s rare that the rights of minorities are established by majority vote, even if these rights are owed by the Constitution.

> A majority of the US population was tolerant of refusing service to ...

But the refusal of service to certain specific races itself is intolerance. That is precisely what Popper's view is: tolerance (by the majority of Americans) of intolerance (towards non-whites) is bad.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#646

Post by HBKXNCUO »

FussyZeus wrote: post #564
psbmt wrote: post #503

>Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. That invariably forces the political landscape to move to the left. Which, I guess, is the intended result of holding that point of view.

I'm completely fine with that until we have literally any logical or scientific reasons to oppose tolerance.

Would you advocate tolerating, say, parents neglecting their children in various ways that we think are harmful to development? Or would you instead try to spin those forms of child neglect as acts of intolerance?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#647

Post by happytoexplain »

microcolonel wrote: post #599
simias wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with extremists is that they drive people who disagree with them away. I've been a fairly heavy user of 4chan for well over a decade now, and I even spent some time on 8chan. I like the anarchic, less ego-driven nature of anonymous image boards. You avoid most of the empty posturing from other social networks. I even think that 8chan was a great idea on paper. It's basically 4chan with Reddit's ability to…

> But then of course the fascists took over. Keep in mind that it's still mostly ironic.

I'm in the same boat as the parent poster in terms of time spent on 4chan and 8chan, and I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I understand the nature of irony on the chans, and that a lot of "-ist" comments are "kidding" (to varying degrees of success in terms of comedy and responsibility for the message one is putting out there), but:

1. To be so sure about the numbers seems presumptuous.

2. Does it matter?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#648

Post by mushufasa »

irrational wrote: post #468
ddebernardy wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down. The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis th…

>Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut What is that criteria? Because I can easily see people disagreeing on what is and is not intolerant. Would you agree that saying that a baker in Colorado must make a cake for a gay wedding is intolerant of the baker's belief? Because I'm certain a sizeable proportion of the US population would agree that it is intolerant.

I think it can be simple.

Intolerance is a set of beliefs or behaviors that exclude.

Cake baker would be in the wrong, because he excludes.

It doesn't matter how many people hold an intolerant belief for that belief to be intolerant.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#649

Post by faissaloo »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #146
nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

If you block 8chan, the only thing that it will result in is people will move to more censorship-resistant technologies. You will push people to TOR, distributed P2P, blockchain forums, etc. Which will make even harder to identify them. You can't stop the signal. ThePirateBay proved it many many times. We need to address the sources of the problem, not the symptoms.

Nowadays most people can't actually get anything off Piratebay cus they can't operate Tor

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#650

Post by pritambaral »

jredwards wrote: post #644
ddebernardy wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down. The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis th…

> clearcut in a you know it when you see it kind of way. "clearcut" and "you know it when you see it" seem like polar opposite concepts to me.

If you know something the very moment you see it, then that fact is "clear" to you. That is the general meaning of "clearcut".
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