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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#101

Post by javagram »

eridius wrote: post #79
nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

> it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists I mean, it literally radicalized white supremacist terrorists . There's no "had the potential" anymore, it's a fact. It also sounds like it held plenty of child porn, so I don't understand why it took until now for anyone to do anything about the site.

I doubt the CP part is accurate, the government could take the site down in that case (unless they were intentionally leaving it up as a honeypot).

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#102

Post by favorited »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #48

I am genuinely upset over this. And that is after CEO pinky swears he will not do it in the future. It will be that much easier to do it now that there is a precedent. I doubt he does not know it. I think.. I think I will be starting free speech focused entity. Like NRA. Laser focus. No restrictions on free speech of any kind. Ever. This may be the only thing to prevent US from losing its list of temporary priviledge…

> No restrictions on free speech of any kind

I'm not aware of any country which allows for speech with "no restrictions"

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#103

Post by [deleted] »

commanderjroc wrote: post #6

I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. You know you can't yell fire in a crowded room and not get litigation and charges brought against you. So, maybe 8chan just ran past the fine line of hate speech vs encouraging acts of hate. I.e you can be racist but you cannot encourage acts of extremism. If 8Chan was a breeding ground for Islamic Extremists would people be okay with still existi…

[deleted]

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#104

Post by criddell »

harryh wrote: post #65
commanderjroc wrote: post #6

I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. You know you can't yell fire in a crowded room and not get litigation and charges brought against you. So, maybe 8chan just ran past the fine line of hate speech vs encouraging acts of hate. I.e you can be racist but you cannot encourage acts of extremism. If 8Chan was a breeding ground for Islamic Extremists would people be okay with still existi…

Did you know that the "fire in a crowded room" metaphor comes from Schenck v. United States in which Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr used the metaphor to defend the criminality of protesting the military draft? I'm not sure if that's the kind of history you want to align yourself with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

You aren't aligning yourself with that by using the fire in a crowded room metaphor.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#105

Post by buildzr »

CydeWeys wrote: post #76

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS. These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Ro…

> We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society.

Speak for yourself, I would. I've downloaded and distributed ISIS propaganda videos before out of sheer intrigue.

Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean you should ban it. Of course, this will be downvoted to hell because this is a hot topic at the moment, but we shouldn't let that too-near emotion influence out policies. We've seen that lead to stuff like the PATRIOT act in the past and we surely don't need another one of those.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#106

Post by bonestamp2 »

commanderjroc wrote: post #6

I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. You know you can't yell fire in a crowded room and not get litigation and charges brought against you. So, maybe 8chan just ran past the fine line of hate speech vs encouraging acts of hate. I.e you can be racist but you cannot encourage acts of extremism. If 8Chan was a breeding ground for Islamic Extremists would people be okay with still existi…

> I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable.

There are already limits to free speech that most people don't complain about. The most frequent example is defamation.

I do like how Canada handles hate speed -- like defamation, it is illegal. There's really no benefit to protecting hate speech. If you argue it is a slippery slope, we're already on a slope with defamation so the benefits of adding hate speech out weight the risks of slipping further.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#107

Post by Alex3917 »

DangerousPie wrote: post #69
Alex3917 wrote: post #30

IMHO this reflects poorly on CloudFlare. The supreme court has ruled time and time again that the right to free speech implies the right to be heard. While CloudFlare obviously isn't legally required to serve 8chan, the only service they are really providing is making it so that 8chan can't be DDOS'd. And DDOS'ing is very clearly a tactic that violates the first amendment. So really by no longer serving 8chan, the on…

> It reminds me a lot of Charlottesville, where people showed up to try to shout over the white nationalists and it just ended up with a bunch of people getting run over by a car. As if something like that happening wasn't entirely predictable. Wait, what are you trying to say here? That these people deserved to get run over because they dared to shout at white nationalists??

I'm saying that I think allowing people to DDOS 8chan will result in more violence.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#108

Post by tombert »

sigstoat wrote: post #80
tombert wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things. It's very easy to shout the mantra of "Free speech!!! OMG!!!" but we gain nothing by acting like there aren't natural consequences to it. By having a liberal fre…

> I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things. there have always been hyper-radical idiots. with 8chan and such, you can see them. you're not getting rid of anything, you're just sticking your head into the…

> there have always been hyper-radical idiots. with 8chan and such, you can see them.

Sure, I'm aware that the KKK existed before the internet.

> you're not getting rid of anything, you're just sticking your head into the sand.

I didn't claim I was getting rid of anyone or anything. I didn't really claim much at all in my post, but there's a difference between "getting rid" of stuff and deplatforming it.

For that matter, how does your logic make any sense? If I hire a hitman to kill someone, could my defense in court be "Well he was going to kill somebody anyway! You're just sticking your head in the sand by blaming me for it!"

Is your argument that rhetoric, delivered consistently enough and effectively enough, can't possibly influence people to do reprehensible things?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#109

Post by badcede »

harryh wrote: post #65
commanderjroc wrote: post #6

I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. You know you can't yell fire in a crowded room and not get litigation and charges brought against you. So, maybe 8chan just ran past the fine line of hate speech vs encouraging acts of hate. I.e you can be racist but you cannot encourage acts of extremism. If 8Chan was a breeding ground for Islamic Extremists would people be okay with still existi…

Did you know that the "fire in a crowded room" metaphor comes from Schenck v. United States in which Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr used the metaphor to defend the criminality of protesting the military draft? I'm not sure if that's the kind of history you want to align yourself with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

Wow, when did the internet figure that one out?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#110

Post by Daishiman »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #48

I am genuinely upset over this. And that is after CEO pinky swears he will not do it in the future. It will be that much easier to do it now that there is a precedent. I doubt he does not know it. I think.. I think I will be starting free speech focused entity. Like NRA. Laser focus. No restrictions on free speech of any kind. Ever. This may be the only thing to prevent US from losing its list of temporary priviledge…

We're so glad you consider that more important than the continued shootings that only the US seems to suffer from on a frequent and permanent basis.

That free speech is sure making a lot of people free right.

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