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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#71

Post by vanadium »

atonse wrote: post #49
Alex3917 wrote: post #30

IMHO this reflects poorly on CloudFlare. The supreme court has ruled time and time again that the right to free speech implies the right to be heard. While CloudFlare obviously isn't legally required to serve 8chan, the only service they are really providing is making it so that 8chan can't be DDOS'd. And DDOS'ing is very clearly a tactic that violates the first amendment. So really by no longer serving 8chan, the on…

The First Amendment is completely irrelevant to this situation. No relation whatsoever. CloudFlare is a private company.

If anything, Cloudflare actually exercised their right to freedom of association (or disassociation, in this case) by dropping 8chan.

The right to free speech in the context of the Constitution only applies when it's the government trying to restrict it.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#72

Post by mrweasel »

vorpalhex wrote: post #34
mrweasel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Facebook host their own servers... well not the only reason, but you could easily make the argument that Facebook is an "Internet hate forum" and should be shut down for failing to police their site.

No, not really, no. Facebook is a media company that has half-assed moderation because it's not profitable to them to be any better about it, and is mostly old ladies posting ancient memes and chain letters.

But it's not just half-assed is it, it's misguide, misleading and misdirected. Facebook will actively block a post selling baby items from a "non-smoking home" because their shitty A.I. and $2 an hour moderators can tell that the post isn't selling tobacco or animals. At the same time they can't find an entire group applauding the death of police officers or groups encouraging violent racism.

And those last two, those aren't old ladies, those a shit people who aren't technically literate enough to find 8chan.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#73

Post by einarfd »

GrumpyNl wrote: post #9

When will the same rules apply to other big companies. FB has never been taken down, and they have been streamig some questionable things. I know its a bit, but look at them. Im just struggeling with the feeling. I have only visisted 8chan a while a go to get a taste whats going on and its like all the other "free" boards, no moderators and it becomes a mess.

I'm one of the ones that believe that Facebook should be better at policing there content. But they do pull down manifestos from mass murders and have been doing that for a long time. The first instances of that I'm aware of is the manifesto of the guy behind the 2011 attack on Norway. As soon as FB figured out who he was and what happened. His page and his manifesto went down, never to come back up again. I'm sure they did similar things earlier than that too, but that one I payed a lot of attention too, and remember like it was yesterday.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#75

Post by ethbro »

davesmith1983 wrote: post #39
hashmap wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. The available evidence says the opposite is true. http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf The way to deal with the "bad guys" is for private businesses to not give them a platform to spew their hate from. And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that.

The "bad guys" just went somewhere else. This doesn't fix the problem it just pushed the problem away from reddit. > And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that. No it isn't. I am fed up of something I like being ruined by moral busy bodies such as yourself. My friend and I like the "edgy" jokes because we work in environments where you have to be political correct and I need to let off some ste…

I'm in favor of extra-legal filtering, according to a company's morals, as long as market alternatives exists.

If speech crosses the line, law enforcement should pursue and prosecute.

Short of that (e.g. the "we were just joking" crowd), the best possible aggregate outcome seems like it would be companies making independent moral judgements and acting on them.

If Cloudflare doesn't want to be associated with 8chan, they refuse them as a customer.

Other customers are then free to judge Cloudflare for that action and use / not use them as they decide.

This seems far preferable to more draconian, government-enforced options.

Companies are inherently political, and a diversity of options is the healthiest ecosystem.

Not, this requires that we have functioning alternatives. For something like 8chan, Cloudflare's services are probably avoidable, but there's a market penetration at with "must serve" should be considered.

E.g. if Facebook banned a political party

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#76

Post by CydeWeys »

We wouldn't tolerate the existence of an Islamist site that glorified and helped perpetrate mass incidents of terror against our society. What 8chan is doing is exactly the same, minus the Islamist part, yet there's hypocrisy in how they're treated vs e.g. the social media wing of ISIS.

These people are trying to kill as many of us as possible. In no way should society accept it. It's simple societal self-defense. Root out the terrorists wherever they may congregate, regardless of whichever flavor of terrorist they happen to be.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#77

Post by rvz »

mrweasel wrote: post #12
Y_Y wrote: post #2

> Internet hate forum I wonder if they'd describe themselves that way.

This is why Facebook host their own servers... well not the only reason, but you could easily make the argument that Facebook is an "Internet hate forum" and should be shut down for failing to police their site.

Not even hosting your own servers would do much to prevent a site shutdown since the domain can also be censored by the company that owns the TLD.

Facebook takes their hosting to a whole new level by being part of the ICANN as a domain registrar which their domains are registered under themselves, making it close to impossible to be shutdown on the domain level.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#78

Post by koolba »

davesmith1983 wrote: post #39
hashmap wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. The available evidence says the opposite is true. http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf The way to deal with the "bad guys" is for private businesses to not give them a platform to spew their hate from. And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that.

The "bad guys" just went somewhere else. This doesn't fix the problem it just pushed the problem away from reddit. > And it's up to us to pressure these private businesses to do that. No it isn't. I am fed up of something I like being ruined by moral busy bodies such as yourself. My friend and I like the "edgy" jokes because we work in environments where you have to be political correct and I need to let off some ste…

> The problem is that large portions of the population aren't engaged in society at large. The is a huge problem with loneliness, suicide and general lack of meaning to life.

Well said. The American melting pot makes this loneliness stronger still as there’s no sense of community left for these people. They live amongst us but they’re not connected to anyone around them.

I’m convinced there’s twisted weirdos all over the world, but traditionally communities did a better job of watching their own and making sure they were not endangering others. That simply does not exist any more, so the dark thoughts fester and grow until they’ve taken total control.

I don’t know how to fix any of this, but know it going to require either bringing those people into the light or occasionally joining them in their darkness.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#79

Post by eridius »

nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

> it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists

I mean, it literally radicalized white supremacist terrorists. There's no "had the potential" anymore, it's a fact.

It also sounds like it held plenty of child porn, so I don't understand why it took until now for anyone to do anything about the site.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#80

Post by sigstoat »

tombert wrote: post #50
nilkn wrote: post #4

I've generally been on the free speech side of this debate, as some of my previous comments on HN will show. With 8chan, I legitimately don't know what my opinion is. I've read it before, and I spent a few hours reading it this weekend, and it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists. I'm not referring to the simple use of racial or ethnic slurs -- of course this…

I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things. It's very easy to shout the mantra of "Free speech!!! OMG!!!" but we gain nothing by acting like there aren't natural consequences to it. By having a liberal fre…

> I think I'm on the same boat as you on this one; I tend to have a pretty libertarian view on free speech, but lately the bizarre rise of hyper-radical idiots on places like 8chan (and even YouTube to a lesser extent) has really made me question these things.

there have always been hyper-radical idiots. with 8chan and such, you can see them.

you're not getting rid of anything, you're just sticking your head into the sand.

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