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Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

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Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#111
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Wikipedia isn't for sale.

Buying wikipedia would be like paying money for an empty shell. Editors would leave, starting another service, since all the content is free to use and duplicate. In fact there are several wikipedia clones out there which just duplicate content, with ads inbetween.

It's essentially an open source encyclopedia. Would buying an open source project be worthless? Not if you're buying the brand name, search engine rankings and recognition that go with it. The #5 website in the world is worth something, and the fact that I don't know the names of any wikipedia re-publishers is significant.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#112
post #104
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, when Google and Verizon agree on a framework for net neutrality, everyone thinks they are being evil. When the FTC issues a ruling that looks almost exactly the same, everyone lauds them for their forward thinking stance. Can you explain what, exactly, you thought was so horrible about what Google and Verizon did?

The world is going to eventually become far more reliant on wireless internet services - Google reneged on their promise to fight for net-neutrality, because they left wireless/mobile internet services unprotected.

Yes, that is a significant compromise. But it is one that the carriers will fight very hard, so Google considered it worthwhile to get agreement on the rest. That's why it was called compromise, rather than being called what Google really wants.

Note that the FTC ruling that they have been lauded for made the exact same compromise, for very similar reasons. What I'm really curious about is the disparity between how they are treated for their respective actions.

Furthermore Google didn't entirely leave wireless unprotected. They lost their 2008 bid for a bunch of wireless spectrum, but got a use restriction applied to Verizon that forces Verizon to respect net neutrality for that bandwidth. So there will be mobile internet services that follow net neutrality.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#113

Why are people so consistently negative about Wikipedia? Just looking at the top comments here, and other places around the internet - I think it's far too common. Let's be more positive. Wikipedia is amazing - congrats to them for successfully achieving their fund-raising goals.

Wikipedia is amazing, but deletionism policy is bad.

BTW, anyone wants to make a service, which hosts base content from wikipedia, but allows to fork and merge articles a la git? By default you see main article (if it exists), but if you want to see alternative opinions - they are just several clicks away.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#114
post #112
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is going to eventually become far more reliant on wireless internet services - Google reneged on their promise to fight for net-neutrality, because they left wireless/mobile internet services unprotected.

Yes, that is a significant compromise. But it is one that the carriers will fight very hard, so Google considered it worthwhile to get agreement on the rest. That's why it was called compromise, rather than being called what Google really wants. Note that the FTC ruling that they have been lauded for made the exact same compromise, for very similar reasons. What I'm really curious about is the disparity between how t…

What I'm really curious about is the disparity between how they are treated for their respective action

The FTC is a regulatory body - Google is a corporation. There's a difference in motivation.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#115
post #37
post #3

Great, now how much more money do they need to buy the disk space necessary to stop deletionism?

There are tens of great arguments you could have made against deletionism, why make a bullshit one? You know it's not about the disk space --- though presumably not all of the 16 people who modded you up know that as well.

I was being intentionally absurd because I wanted to highlight that deletionist policy is not very relevant. Sure, you don't want every article about what I ate today, but well-written articles about obscure subjects don't hurt anything, why should they be deleted?

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#116
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! So they spent nearly $9M in salaries vs $2M for bandwidth, $1M in travel expenses, $2M in office rent/furniture/meetings https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikime... 2010 Wikipedia Spending, in USD, in thousands 8,972 Salaries and wages 1,837 Internet hosting 3,270 Capital expenditures 483 Donation processing fees, charitable registrations 2,274 External contractors 864 Travel for staff, Bo…

This data is concerning to me, here's why: First, most of the value of wikipedia comes from random users. Second, we've seen a pattern of Wales and wikipedia administration not understanding where the value of wikipedia comes from. Third, we've seen a pattern of policies and practices that are actively hostile to the users and usages that are wikipedia's bedrock (deletionism, edit wars, unnecessarily tight permission…

Can you explain what you mean by "holding huge amounts of content they did not create hostage"?

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#117
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tens of great arguments you could have made against deletionism, why make a bullshit one? You know it's not about the disk space --- though presumably not all of the 16 people who modded you up know that as well.

I was being intentionally absurd because I wanted to highlight that deletionist policy is not very relevant. Sure, you don't want every article about what I ate today, but well-written articles about obscure subjects don't hurt anything, why should they be deleted?

That first sentence doesn't even make sense: the whole debate over deletionism vs. inclusionism isn't even relevant to this article. You're like the guy who can't stop from commenting about Wikileaks on Amazon stories. Please, stop.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#118
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I see that he is no longer the chairperson, though he still sits on the Board and I would expect holds other powerful positions relative to Wikipedia. It'd also be silly to think that he didn't exert a large influence on the Board as presently composed and Wikipedia's community as a whole -- his face was just plastered all over the site for four months, as you may recall.

I realize for many, time stands still when gazing at Jimmy's fuzzy visage. But the 2010 campaign lasted 50 days; not even close to four months. I see you did not even read the link that sparked this very thread.

You're right that I didn't read the article completely -- I skimmed, since its premise is pretty straightforward; the results of WP's fundraiser was $16 mil. My replies have much more to do with the parent comment and why I don't donate to Wikimedia in general than the specific incident reported here.

I will believe if you say it was only fifty days, I know no differently other than my estimate above, which was apparently wrong. Sorry. It did seem much longer, you're right.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was being intentionally absurd because I wanted to highlight that deletionist policy is not very relevant. Sure, you don't want every article about what I ate today, but well-written articles about obscure subjects don't hurt anything, why should they be deleted?

That first sentence doesn't even make sense: the whole debate over deletionism vs. inclusionism isn't even relevant to this article. You're like the guy who can't stop from commenting about Wikileaks on Amazon stories. Please, stop.

On the contrary, I think the debate over the issues of a service that is soliciting donations from us is of direct relevance.

Re: Wikipedia Raises $16 Million to Remain Ad-Free

#120
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WP people don't want the encyclopedia to "forget about" those topics; they are bickering about whether they deserve entire pages to themselves. ... which again gives lie to the idea that the issue is "disk space". I'm not trying to get sucked into this "deletionism" vs "inclusionism" argument, since those labels suck all the oxygen out of the discussion ("what, you're siding with people who think _why doesn't belong…

Virtually no deletion arguments conclude with a merge, though. Typically the information is completely lost, no matter how well cited it is. Which makes the verifiability argument bankrupt as well, at least as a defense of what actually happens on Wikipedia. If the verifiability argument were sufficient, the notability policies would all be scrapped and deletion policy would round down to "delete articles which don't…

Wikipedia is broken in a lot of ways.

I wrote a big long comment about a year and a half ago where I supposed that the problems probably boil down to "editing as sport" and "status seeking quests for adminship". Both lead to situations where editing decisions are made in a slipshod fashion and then defended to the death to avoid losing points in RfA's.

Deletionism is not one of the things that is broken about Wikipedia. Deletionism makes absolute sense. Wikipedia owns the Google SERPs, there is tremendous incentive to paste up bullshit articles for profit, and the sheer volume of crap --- take this from someone who spent 4 months patrolling AfD --- is staggering. The "pure" deletionist ideology is harsh, but it ultimately serves the greater good of the project.

In every one of these debates, I see people lose sight of the fundamental point of Wikipedia. It is not, as many people believe, a repository of all human knowledge. It's an encyclopedia. The point is not to have all possible articles. In fact, that's the opposite of the point. The point is to have only good articles, using nothing but volunteer work.

I too am done wasting time on Wikipedia, and I'm pretty grossed out by what happens when you look under the rock that is the Wikipedia: namespace. But I respect the project itself. It is tremendously, staggeringly successful. It is clearly doing something right.

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