Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#201

Post by davesmith1983 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 11:17 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #198

davesmith1983 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to China? You don't have to imagine. Well the UK isn't much better now.

The UK has put millions of its citizens in prison because of their religion?

The article is about surveillance, the STASI were known for their insane levels of surveillance. The last time I checked there was a huge number of security cameras in the UK, maybe more than any other country.

Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". There are seven hate speech convictions per day, though I suspect most of these are fines and a criminal record.

So the UK is going down the same road as China.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#202

Post by DanBC » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 11:21 AM UTC

davesmith1983 wrote: post #201

greglindahl wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has put millions of its citizens in prison because of their religion?

The article is about surveillance, the STASI were known for their insane levels of surveillance. The last time I checked there was a huge number of security cameras in the UK, maybe more than any other country. Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". There are seven hate speech convictions per day, though I suspect most of these are fines and a criminal record. So the UK is going…

> Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech".

Almost all these examples usually given involve campaigns of harassment.

And there's nothing nebulous about it: the boundaries are clear and simple.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#203

Post by davesmith1983 » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 11:38 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #202

davesmith1983 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about surveillance, the STASI were known for their insane levels of surveillance. The last time I checked there was a huge number of security cameras in the UK, maybe more than any other country. Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". There are seven hate speech convictions per day, though I suspect most of these are fines and a criminal record. So the UK is going…

> Also the UK has put people in prison for the nebulous crime of "hate speech". Almost all these examples usually given involve campaigns of harassment. And there's nothing nebulous about it: the boundaries are clear and simple.

No not at all. The Chelsea Russell case 17 year old girl on facebook posted rap lyrics, we also have the 'Count Dankula' case which the Scottish court decided it was "Nazi Recruitment" ignoring the context where he clearly said "I am using this to annoy my girlfriend" at the start of the video. I believe there is also a case where some Grime rappers were charged with hate speech for their songs ... this would be the equivalent of locking NWA up for the Straight Outta Compton album.

So no it isn't clear at all.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#204

Post by rscho » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 11:41 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #142

apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

What gov? You mean the corp customer inquiries office?

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#205

Post by jackvalentine » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 11:45 AM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #168

jackvalentine wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a roll of black circle stickers in my bag and I regularly put them over small cameras in public (such as the ones hidden in video advertising screens). They're purposefully non-destructive and I've even made the effort to select a sticker type where the adhesive doesn't leave a residue when peeled off.

Got a link for those? I'm liking this!

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/c/office-sup...

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#206

Post by ptero » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 12:09 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #92

mgamache wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The FAA might have something to say about what floats around the sky. At least in the USA.

I think it's naive to expect a showdown between the FAA and the Pentagon, doubly so one where the FAA wins.

FAA wields enormous (usually dictatorial) powers in things that refer to safe flight and will easily trump Pentagon there. It would not lift a finger on privacy, but will likely enforce that all such balloons carry transponders. This is not a consolation here, but just a note that in its fiefdom FAA will win.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#207

Post by ptero » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 12:14 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #71

Somehow I didn't think that it was OK for the US military to operate domestically. According to the Posse Comitatus Act. But I see that there's an exception for surveillance. Charming.

I think you are spot on and I am pretty sure Pentagon bureaucrats take PC very seriously. That is why I suspect it is either a test for eventual use overseas (not operational deployment), or DHS is ready to take over

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#208

Post by ptero » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 12:20 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #93

mgamache wrote: post #82

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.

Location and targeting are trivial (as others said balloons will likely have ADS-B or similar transponders). But your laser (prep and action) will be super easy to detect, too.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#209

Post by adamsea » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #154

alex_duf wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a french person I don't see that going very well or being very effective. Now our police force (CRS) are just military and dress like robocop for any confrontation. People get hurt, the news outlets take the government side and the problems stays the same.

This is why many Americans won’t give their guns away. Imagine (not saying it would be a good outcome), but what Hong Kong would be like right now if all citizens hard arms? Well maybe the whole thing wouldn’t have even started. But wow, it would be a very different scene. Instead it’s more a case of if the military wants to walk in and shutdown the place, it’s going to be a lot easier. Not entirely a gun rights advo…

They would be better served by helping to elect politicians who will preserv their civil liberties.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#210

Post by soulofmischief » Sat, Aug 03, 2019, 12:49 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #197

apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

The novelty here is a further reduction in cost by mounting it on balloons, but gorgon stare platforms for total surveillance have been rolled out in cities in the U.S. for several years now with plane-mounted camera arrays. Baltimore’s PD deployed it in secret in 2016 with money from a private donor without even informing the mayor. The cost is rapidly falling to the point of inevitability for government actors and…

> Criminals could observe people and car movements in entire neighborhoods to better target burglaries and carjackings. The genie is pretty much out of the bottle.

It can't be understated how much impact this, and drones, will have on home invasion crimes. And they will have surveillance ops on standby to help them successfully navigate out of police chases when the need arises.