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Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

theguardian.com

151–160 of 315 posts

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With umbrellas and parasols. Everyone should walk around with an umbrella to make the surveillance useless. Parasols on your balcony or in your garden.

That doesn't make the surveillance useless. So they see a parasol come out of your house at one time and walk to your workplace. They still have 100% of the information that they had if you didn't walk to work with a parasol.

People are clever and adaptable. How about walking in a crowd and exchanging umbrellas for one simple idea and I've not even had my first coffee of the day.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#152
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Today it's the war on drugs and terror. Tomorrow it's something else.” > “This train has one destination, and it's not even clear if there will be any stops along the way. To understand where we're headed, try reading the Bill of Rights with the assumption that your government knows everything there is to know about you, and where those who attempt to reveal the extent of these capabilities are imprisoned or execu…

> Devil’s advocate here. Who’s to say they won’t use it strictly to deter drug trafficking and terrorism? Couldn’t they take steps to be transparent about what data is collected, and where it goes? What systems would you put into place to prevent abuse? What about bad cops who would misappropriate the intel? What would prevent them from tracking non-terrorist/drug related individuals? How do you prevent citizens from…

I can think of a system : at the next election, vote for a president with a program about systemic transparency and openness for all the agencies and organizations.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#153
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important thing one can do is write, AND call, their legislature. Don't ever shut up about it. Does it stand a chance against corporate lobbyists? Probably not, but it leaves one with a clear conscience.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads into partisan flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

As a french person I don't see that going very well or being very effective. Now our police force (CRS) are just military and dress like robocop for any confrontation. People get hurt, the news outlets take the government side and the problems stays the same.

This is why many Americans won’t give their guns away. Imagine (not saying it would be a good outcome), but what Hong Kong would be like right now if all citizens hard arms? Well maybe the whole thing wouldn’t have even started. But wow, it would be a very different scene.

Instead it’s more a case of if the military wants to walk in and shutdown the place, it’s going to be a lot easier.

Not entirely a gun rights advocate at all, but I can see some people’s motives.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Today it's the war on drugs and terror. Tomorrow it's something else.” > “This train has one destination, and it's not even clear if there will be any stops along the way. To understand where we're headed, try reading the Bill of Rights with the assumption that your government knows everything there is to know about you, and where those who attempt to reveal the extent of these capabilities are imprisoned or execu…

The people in power today aren’t the people in power tomorrow. Even if you trust those in power today, do you trust the next 10 administrations to have sufficient restraint not to abuse their power?

If a future administration ever has the political power to implement totalitarianism we're stuffed. The lack of a mass surveillance system will not stop them as they will build one. Horrible totalitarian regimes have existed in the past with quite low-tech systems (e.g. East Germany, USSR).

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#156
post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

I'd like to raise that:

- If a future administration ever has the political power to implement totalitarianism, we're stuffed. The lack of an existing mass surveillance system will not stop them as they will build one.

- Most people's political leanings are already very easy to detect due to social media, social networks, financial donations, etc. So balloons don't seem to make it much worse.

- We can expect severe security threats in the future as WMDs become cheaper, more accessible and more powerful.. The police are not magicians - they need effective tools..

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

The last protest didn't go very well for the protesters.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

The trouble is, you guys seem to 'revolt' over nothing on a regular basis, paralyzing your own economy in the process. You need to learn to pick your battles.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in power today aren’t the people in power tomorrow. Even if you trust those in power today, do you trust the next 10 administrations to have sufficient restraint not to abuse their power?

If a future administration ever has the political power to implement totalitarianism we're stuffed. The lack of a mass surveillance system will not stop them as they will build one. Horrible totalitarian regimes have existed in the past with quite low-tech systems (e.g. East Germany, USSR).

I lived in a totalitarian regime similar to the ones you mentioned (Ceausescu’s Romania back in the ‘80s) and if his bad guys had had access to today’s surveillance tools we would have been really, really stuffed.

As things were you “only” had to watch out for people who would rat you out to Securitate or to Stasi (in East Germany), not an ideal situation but manageable from a certain point on, one could live a decent life from a “freedom” point of view, to say so, you could say political jokes or complain about the regime to the right people, i.e. not the regime’s informers, or you could directly “steal” from the State things you believe should have belonged to you, like the peasants from my grandma’s village were doing when they were taking stuff at night from the State farms that had been built on lands nationalized by the State from the same farmers immediately after the Communists came to power. All these things were highly illegal, I mean the regime trash-talking, the taking of stuff from State farms, the only thing protecting us was that the regime couldn’t follow us all in order to catch us. With today’s tools that would not have been a problem, you can see that in today’s China where every form of political jokes (even in private online conversations) is prohibited and actively acted against.

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