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Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

theguardian.com

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Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#141

Post by jlawson »

throwawaycanada wrote: post #126
mc32 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reminiscent of some technology and technique learned and developed for operations in Iraq to go after IED planters. Basically once an event is alerted (ex truck stolen; someone abducted, etc) they backtrack or fwdtrack movements and see where perps came from or went to.

Now imagine what happens when they can look at a city, or the whole country, or world, and select one individual and backtrack their entire lives. With audio, recorded from all the devices that surround us.

If you're one of a handful of megacorps collecting phone location data, contact data, purchase data, etc, this seems like it would already be trivial. They don't need a camera physically looking at you (and they often have those too).

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#142

Post by taurath »

apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#143

Post by jononor »

t-a4550 wrote: post #129
apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

> “Today it's the war on drugs and terror. Tomorrow it's something else.” > “This train has one destination, and it's not even clear if there will be any stops along the way. To understand where we're headed, try reading the Bill of Rights with the assumption that your government knows everything there is to know about you, and where those who attempt to reveal the extent of these capabilities are imprisoned or execu…

Existing surveillance technology, as per the Snowden revelations, has not been deployed with 'transparency about what data is collected, and where it goes'. Even today it is very unclear what data exactly is being captured, and how it is being used. I do not see any reason why this proposed new technology will be any better.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#144

Post by jgtrosh »

taurath wrote: post #142
apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#145

Post by ThrustVectoring »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #116
wmeredith wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but acts of civil disobedience usually mean that you refuse to do something peacefully. I’m not sure that there’s a way to passively disarm something.

With umbrellas and parasols. Everyone should walk around with an umbrella to make the surveillance useless. Parasols on your balcony or in your garden.

That doesn't make the surveillance useless. So they see a parasol come out of your house at one time and walk to your workplace. They still have 100% of the information that they had if you didn't walk to work with a parasol.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#146

Post by inflatableDodo »

mgamache wrote: post #82

I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?

Given their flight ceiling is up to 65,000ft, they are quite a bit lower than Felix Baumgartner's record breaking jump, so I guess you could try skydiving into one.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#147

Post by alex_duf »

jgtrosh wrote: post #144
taurath wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

As a french person I don't see that going very well or being very effective.

Now our police force (CRS) are just military and dress like robocop for any confrontation. People get hurt, the news outlets take the government side and the problems stays the same.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#148

Post by taurath »

jgtrosh wrote: post #144
taurath wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new deal here. If everyone with power is allowed to just follow their incentives, we end up with an awful place for everyone. What is the contract between people, government and corporations that we can make that allows for the freedom in society that we value? It seems like both the corps and gov are teaming up against team people here.

In France we have a contract: if people are unhappy they rise against. If there's no risk of revolting, the fox is fearless in the chicken hen.

Here the revolters are completely wedged and pitted against each other.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#149

Post by Broken_Hippo »

t-a4550 wrote: post #129
apo wrote: post #49

> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…

> “Today it's the war on drugs and terror. Tomorrow it's something else.” > “This train has one destination, and it's not even clear if there will be any stops along the way. To understand where we're headed, try reading the Bill of Rights with the assumption that your government knows everything there is to know about you, and where those who attempt to reveal the extent of these capabilities are imprisoned or execu…

These points would be much better argued if there were a history of people being able to trust the US government overall. But there isn't. It is prudent to think that the government, in general, will head down the same avenues they have in the recent and not-so-recent past.

There is a history of the government using it disproportionately against minorities and folks that want to change the status quo. There is a history of putting some groups in jail more than others. And so on. This lack of trust and history of power abuses and such things seriously dampens any hopes of responsible use. I'll add that some of their "drug trafficking" is to check to see if folks are selling small bits of weed. Terrorism seems like an obvious farce at this point considering they are keen to ignore terrorism from right-wing folks and instead, look to condemn Muslims and to condemn folks that look like they might be "Muslim" or "Mexican".

The government - at least in the us - needs trust first.

Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US

#150

Post by Broken_Hippo »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #15

There's a bit of scaremongering in the headline; these are being tested domestically by the DOD use outside of the US. The DOD isn't allowed to conduct domestic surveillance.

They've been slowly giving police departments "surplus" military equipment for some time now. I can easily imagine a similar fate for this, just as I can easily see the FBI, ATF, or other such government agency using this.
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