So this is basically Google's Project Loon but with more spying? How do they deal with cloud cover? It's not much of an issue for Loon, but I suppose it would be problematic for anyone doing anything in the visual range.
Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
121–130 of 315 posts
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve maintained for a long time that the only reason we have a “war on terror” is that the ability of the “war on drugs” to strip us of our civil liberties had mostly run its course by 2001. These are the political issues I care most about. I really hoped Obama would curtail the surveillance state. For 8 years I thought “soon, he will try to rollback the patriot act.” That never happened. Instead, we got assisinated…
> Hollywood leans strongly toward lionizing rogue cops/gestapo agents who trample civil rights. Hollywood, like Legislatures, are giving the majority of the public what they want.
Legislatures don’t give what the majority want. They give what the rich and powerful want.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey the good news for us is the ones in the US don't have self-guided missiles attached, right?
Are you sure? If not yet, soon.
*if not, loon.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#124I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?
This reminds me a bit of the "Harriet Tubman Sarah Connor brigade" (actual name). They were opposed to GPS satellites and knew they couldn't get them after they went up... so they successfully attacked them while they were on the ground (prelaunch) with wood axes. Did quite a bit of damage too.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#125This is a documentary clip from 2013 that shows what the cameras and systems in these blimps can do. Apparently the biggest breakthrough is their high bandwidth laser data communication system.
The government should not have this much information asymmetry relative to the citizenry.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#126> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…
This is reminiscent of some technology and technique learned and developed for operations in Iraq to go after IED planters. Basically once an event is alerted (ex truck stolen; someone abducted, etc) they backtrack or fwdtrack movements and see where perps came from or went to.
Now imagine what happens when they can look at a city, or the whole country, or world, and select one individual and backtrack their entire lives. With audio, recorded from all the devices that surround us.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Hollywood leans strongly toward lionizing rogue cops/gestapo agents who trample civil rights. Hollywood, like Legislatures, are giving the majority of the public what they want.
Boy do I have news for you. "How the CIA Hoodwinked Hollywood Since its inception, the agency has wooed filmmakers, producers, and actors in order to present a rosy portrait of its operations to the American public." https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/op...
And the press. The press is important.
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#128I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?
Total novice here, but a drone locked onto the balloon transponder? You could pre-program the drone hours or days in advance. Use all 3D printed parts with reclaimed batteries? Assembled in a clean room? (just a thought experiment)
Unless it is a jet-powered drone, it won't reach the altitude. Rotors stop creating uplift at some height, because the air to create uplift is far too thin. And if you are able to build a jet-engine -- well you could basically call it a guided missile system. You'd need a launch facility, lots and lots of fuel and you'd be detected by ATC once you launch (if you haven't already been detected procuring resources to build the thing).
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#129> The new balloons promise a cheap surveillance platform that could follow multiple cars and boats for extended periods. And because winds often travel in different directions at different altitudes, the balloons can usually hover over a given area simply by ascending or descending. Stepping back from the details of this story reveals a striking pattern that most public discussions on mass surveillance miss entirely.…
> “Today it's the war on drugs and terror. Tomorrow it's something else.”
> “This train has one destination, and it's not even clear if there will be any stops along the way. To understand where we're headed, try reading the Bill of Rights with the assumption that your government knows everything there is to know about you, and where those who attempt to reveal the extent of these capabilities are imprisoned or executed.”
Devil’s advocate here. Who’s to say they won’t use it strictly to deter drug trafficking and terrorism? Couldn’t they take steps to be transparent about what data is collected, and where it goes?
The point is, discussions on governmental surveillance usually jump to the conclusion that society is becoming like George Orwell’s 1984.
Could someone explain why these surveillance balloons are bad news for ordinary citizens without using the slippery slope fallacy?
Re: Pentagon testing mass surveillance balloons across the US
#130I am not advocating this in the US or anywhere, but how would one disable a surveillance balloon as an act of civil disobedience if necessary (without ending up in jail)?
Lasers are the only workable option, I think. But locating a small object at some km altitude would be nontrivial. And hitting one with a laser would be ~impossible. Also, it would see scattered light long before you hit it directly. And even if it had an autonomous targeting system, there'd be a record of its movements. So it would be very hard so stay anonymous.
It is easier to find the control room and drop the pants of operators.