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N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

nytimes.com

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Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#101

Post by DocTomoe »

Aperocky wrote: post #14

The whole problem is how do you selectively use facial recognition? It's not like there's a human judging whether the camera took a photo of someone underage, and somehow classify it by hands. The system is probably deployed by 90% software engineer and NONE of them probably even saw 0.01% of the actual database outside of the few example they used to debug. Those images will never be visited again unless there's a s…

> The system is probably deployed by 90% software engineer

And this is the problem: The ruthlessness of engineers who then will wash their hands in innocence.

Physicists creating nuclear weapons. Chemists creating chemical weapons. Software Engineers creating an Orwellian surveillance wet dream. These people need to get the Perillos of Athens treatment, so they and those who come after them can learn that ethics is a thing in their profession.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#102

Post by DocTomoe »

maximente wrote: post #17
not_a_cop75 wrote: post #5

Honestly, I have no problem with a database of public images showing/tracking people's public actions. It used to be in a small town you knew who was good and bad by their actions. With the population explosion, the only way we have a practical means to return to that is with facial recognition databases.

have you considered the obvious fallout from that? one example: bad actors use database of people's public actions to privately harass them (e.g. following them to work => ID employer => extort/blackmail) what is your solution to this outside of panopticon?

Mutually assured destruction. Everyone has something they do not want others to be aware of.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#103

Post by imgabe »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #98
imgabe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Saudi Arabia has historically, again and again, used facial recognition data collected by the NYPD to hunt down people who went to gay clubs in NYC, who for some reason spontaneously "end up" in Saudi Arabia via some unspecified process they can't control?

Look up the history of the helpful IBM census machines just before WWII.

Yeah, remember when that happened and then we banned governments from using electronic records or computer data processing? I guess that's why the government keeps all their records on paper now and does all of the processing by hand.

Because computers were used for something evil once so it must be the inanimate objects that are themselves inherently evil and not, you know, the people using them. What a weird, reactionary, alarmist stance to be so prevalent on a supposedly technology based forum.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#104

Post by mixmastamyk »

imgabe wrote: post #103
mixmastamyk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up the history of the helpful IBM census machines just before WWII.

Yeah, remember when that happened and then we banned governments from using electronic records or computer data processing? I guess that's why the government keeps all their records on paper now and does all of the processing by hand. Because computers were used for something evil once so it must be the inanimate objects that are themselves inherently evil and not, you know, the people using them. What a weird, react…

Christ, how naive. Do you think people have changed any? Different groups are taking advantage of these records every day. It happened in the past and will in the future. The only thing limiting the most horrible examples is opportunity. That's why we must limit our exposure to those who would do us harm.

I also recommend a reading of the history behind the "bill of rights."

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#105

Post by xwdv »

abugheratwork wrote: post #39
xwdv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, there is a strict process in proving that someone is a homosexual in Saudi Arabia. It’s not as simple as “here’s some pictures of this guy leaving a gay club, execute him”. If it were that easy the system would be rife for abuse obviously, especially in an age where any image can be faked or taken out of context. Second, you can simply deny the images were even real, or that it was not you, and further…

Assuming everything you say is true ... your point is what? This hypothetical person would probably not be executed? Going through a trial for your own sexual orientation but being acquitted doesn't sound like a great time to me.

It simply would not make it to trial, especially if you are a person of no significance.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#106

Post by HomeDeLaPot »

phil248 wrote: post #65

This reminds me of when I was a little kid, maybe 2nd grade, and our class took a field trip to the police station. We all had our fingerprints taken. At the time, it just seemed like a fun activity to show us a little bit about how police work is done.

I had fingerprints and dental whatchamacallums taken when I was a kid. However, they gave them to us/our parents to keep.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#107

Post by imgabe »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #104
imgabe wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, remember when that happened and then we banned governments from using electronic records or computer data processing? I guess that's why the government keeps all their records on paper now and does all of the processing by hand. Because computers were used for something evil once so it must be the inanimate objects that are themselves inherently evil and not, you know, the people using them. What a weird, react…

Christ, how naive. Do you think people have changed any? Different groups are taking advantage of these records every day. It happened in the past and will in the future. The only thing limiting the most horrible examples is opportunity. That's why we must limit our exposure to those who would do us harm. I also recommend a reading of the history behind the "bill of rights."

Are you counting the NYPD among "those who would do us harm"? Because that is what the actual exposure is here. This talk about Saudi Arabia is hypothetical nonsense. TFA is talking about the NYPD using facial recognition to suggest a possible lead to human detectives, who would then use actual judgement to decide if a match to a five year old photo of an eleven year old is something that is likely to be worth pursuing.

If your position is that this is the equivalent of SS soldiers breaking down your door and hauling you away to a concentration camp, then I honestly don't know why you aren't in the street rioting right now.

We could have a useful discussion about realistic pros and cons of things that are actually happening if people would leave off of the nonsensical hyperbole for like, a fucking second.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#108

Post by mixmastamyk »

imgabe wrote: post #107
mixmastamyk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christ, how naive. Do you think people have changed any? Different groups are taking advantage of these records every day. It happened in the past and will in the future. The only thing limiting the most horrible examples is opportunity. That's why we must limit our exposure to those who would do us harm. I also recommend a reading of the history behind the "bill of rights."

Are you counting the NYPD among "those who would do us harm"? Because that is what the actual exposure is here. This talk about Saudi Arabia is hypothetical nonsense. TFA is talking about the NYPD using facial recognition to suggest a possible lead to human detectives , who would then use actual judgement to decide if a match to a five year old photo of an eleven year old is something that is likely to be worth pursu…

Definitely. Police are doing real harm (and good) every day. And are dying to get their hands on technology to make their jobs easier with no thought to negative consequences to others.

The most effective way to fix abuses is to prevent them in the first place. We restrict govts and police by design, a need recognized for centuries. If a capability can be abused, it will be abused. Not if, when. That's the last reply such a shortsighted argument will get.

(Also, am not restricted to other's problematic examples upthread.)

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#109

Post by WaitWaitWha »

xvector wrote: post #85
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did you ever watch a congressional hearing in the US on any technology realated subject? It's a comedic bit. This comment could be straight out of 1870 when things were industrializing rapidly. We'll figure it out eventually. Hopefully without any serious oppression and/or bloodshed in the process.

As long as the geriatrics in Congress remain in Congress, no change will happen. We need new people so we can actually make progress.

This is nearly identical attitude of the younger generation, no matter how far we go back. :D I _do_ agree that the US Congress could use term limits.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#110

Post by mixmastamyk »

imgabe wrote: post #107
mixmastamyk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christ, how naive. Do you think people have changed any? Different groups are taking advantage of these records every day. It happened in the past and will in the future. The only thing limiting the most horrible examples is opportunity. That's why we must limit our exposure to those who would do us harm. I also recommend a reading of the history behind the "bill of rights."

Are you counting the NYPD among "those who would do us harm"? Because that is what the actual exposure is here. This talk about Saudi Arabia is hypothetical nonsense. TFA is talking about the NYPD using facial recognition to suggest a possible lead to human detectives , who would then use actual judgement to decide if a match to a five year old photo of an eleven year old is something that is likely to be worth pursu…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/07/fbi-ice...

No one voted for this or gave their permission. This is what happens when you don't keep law enforcement on a short leash.

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