Earlier quoted context omitted.
> grinding away at a FANG I've started to propose we s/FANG/Big N/g "FANG" leaves off other obvious big companies, e.g. Uber, and it wouldn't scale to keep trying to add them to the acronym. Here N is used like when one talks about a list "N items long"
Uber and Lyft don’t belong on any “Big N” list until they show a profit rather than pissing away billions a year.
Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
161–170 of 446 posts
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amen to all that. OA> Herein is the source of the problem. The more irrelevant experience a candidate has, the more lopsided the utility/value equation becomes… No, the source of the problem is the idea that 10 years of “C++ experience” is “irrelevant” to a project using Rails, as if development experience is somehow locked to the language you happened to do the development in. Being a valuable senior developer is ab…
I think a lot of problems some older developers have is that the culture has shifted. Maybe I'm off the mark, but I feel like older devs come from a world where programming was all about programming and it was less a formal career than it is now. To succeed in programming, you have to work well in a business. You can't be Linus Torvalds, walking around with a big ego, unless you're so important it's hard to get rid o…
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#163Age discrimination is absolutely a thing, but (and this is only based on anecdata) I would say it is much, much worse in the valley than just about anywhere else. The rest of the world seems to have a less damaged culture.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#164I'm not sure I'm buying that. The JVM ? Still rocking it 20 years after. Memory allocations pattern ? Still there. The network stack ? Well, doesn't seem to have changed a lot. The older guys, they seem like they had the time to correctly learn the unix network tools, the jvm debugging ones, the memory inspection ones. I've known older devs for which I have the utmost respect because I felt like they can just debug t…
Java may not be my favorite language, but I respect how the language has both progressed and maintained its heritage. It allows the developer to build upon their skills rather than relearning nearly identical skills every time a new technology comes out.
The problem is that this 70 year old industry still behaves in very immature ways. While this may be acceptable when it comes down to attitudes towards technology, the unfortunate side-effect seems to be the adoption of similar attitudes towards people.
Every time someone says something like, "young people are more in tune with the current state of technology," or, "old people are more capable because they have more experience," they are legitimizing prejudice. That's true even when the statement is being made in an attempt to combat prejudice since it is applying generalizations to individuals.
Granted, it is very difficult to shed generalizations. Just look at my comment about the immaturity of the industry. That isn't universally true. Some companies are going to have a younger workforce, some older, some heterogeneous. Some companies are going to have old people working with old technologies, some are going to have young people working with young technologies, but some are going to have the young with old technologies and vice versa. Yet the generalization comes about because of how we frame the industry, which is one where the new replaces the old.
Which brings me back to why I respect Java: it looks both towards the future and back at the past. It is language of growth, rather than a language of revolution. Perhaps this inanimate technology has something to teach us about how we regard people: we should be encouraging growth and advancement rather than treating people as disposable.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amen to all that. OA> Herein is the source of the problem. The more irrelevant experience a candidate has, the more lopsided the utility/value equation becomes… No, the source of the problem is the idea that 10 years of “C++ experience” is “irrelevant” to a project using Rails, as if development experience is somehow locked to the language you happened to do the development in. Being a valuable senior developer is ab…
I think a lot of problems some older developers have is that the culture has shifted. Maybe I'm off the mark, but I feel like older devs come from a world where programming was all about programming and it was less a formal career than it is now. To succeed in programming, you have to work well in a business. You can't be Linus Torvalds, walking around with a big ego, unless you're so important it's hard to get rid o…
everyone I talk to doesn't want* a programmer in the older sense. they want people to integrate external large packages. they don't want to to test, they want to prop something up and see if it makes money. they don't want to talk about architecture and features and make plans - they just want to respond on a dime to what the market is saying.
without any value judgement - I personally don't have a lot to offer in that environment. and to varying degrees I think the hiring managers understand that (sadly, quite a number don't)
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#166Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#167Not because they can't program anymore, but because corporations try to promote people to management if they've been around a while and haven't screwed up, and they tend to pay them more if they accept.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#168This is generally true. It's a combination of many things, from brain "degradation", ageism, simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ), other more important interests like having a real life and when you really mute all the marketing BS, your delusions and wishful thinking, the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life for the maj…
>the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting What is a "professional setting" in this context?
You know, being the brick mason of yet another cathedral of delusions and failure as most business are. Which is life and I don't really have a problem with that.
But we are all human and after a decade of this shit, it gets hollow and meaningless.
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#169What are some common Plan Bs?
Starting law school next week!
Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is 100% a colloquialism..
Meaning what?