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High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

sciencedaily.com

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Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#71

Post by Zenst »

wnevets wrote: post #54
bogwog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That digit ratio stuff has always weirded me out. There are even some studies that show certain ratios correspond with homosexuality. That wikipedia page even has a huge table with a list of stuff like having a high digit ratio corresponds to reduced financial trading ability, and a low digit ratio corresponds to a longer penis. That shit is weird.

People tend to forget just how important hormones can be and just assume everything is because of genes.

We are also only equally coming around to the thinking that the makeup of bacteria in the stomach has a bigger impact in area's that we have never invisanged before.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#72

Post by brandonmenc »

master-litty wrote: post #63
deckar01 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autism is a disorder that can require medical treatment. If a doctor could screen for risk factors and provide medication to pregnant women that reduced the chances of autism developing in the child, it would be their duty.

Absolutely not. If it were anyone's decision it should be the mother's, and I even find that questionable. Autism isn't inherently bad, it's just different. There's no duty beyond screenings and providing the knowledge.

> Autism isn't inherently bad, it's just different.

Not true for all manifestations of it.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#73

Post by fasteo »

RmDen wrote: post #38
Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

ok..now I am confused which hand do you look at?.. On my left hand..index and ring finger are about the same.... on my right hand the ring finger is longer

The other way around for me. I am left handed. This finger ratio thing is weird.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#74

Post by Brakenshire »

master-litty wrote: post #63
deckar01 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autism is a disorder that can require medical treatment. If a doctor could screen for risk factors and provide medication to pregnant women that reduced the chances of autism developing in the child, it would be their duty.

Absolutely not. If it were anyone's decision it should be the mother's, and I even find that questionable. Autism isn't inherently bad, it's just different. There's no duty beyond screenings and providing the knowledge.

There are certainly forms or degrees of autism which are totally disabling.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#75

Post by Someone1234 »

fortran77 wrote: post #11

There's a well established link between obese mothers and autism. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4006442/ and obesity leads to higher than normal estrogen levels: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7083189/ So this may be the connection.

Your study doesn't support your summary:

> Maternal obesity (BMI ≥30) was only weakly associated with ASD risk, whereas paternal obesity was associated with an increased risk of autistic disorder and Asperger disorder.

Paternal obesity couldn't impact womb estrogen levels. There's a weak connection between maternal obesity and ASD risk in the study you linked.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#76

Post by dang »

fortran77 wrote: post #12
devoply wrote: post #9

BPA mimics estrogen, so does that mean that plastics are causing autism? https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/...

More likely obesity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7083189/

We've asked you numerous times to avoid this topic on HN, since you've inundated threads with it in the past. That request stands, and if you keep breaking it, we're going to have to ban you again. I don't want to do that, so please refrain from going there here.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#77

Post by godelski »

Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

Interesting about the digit ratio. As a counter example my ring and index are approximately the same length on both hands, left hand index is only slightly smaller. I've never been diagnosed with autism though (my friend who used to work very closely with autistic kids has suggested that I might be slightly in the spectrum because some characteristics but that's about it).

Could be a pattern. Could be a pattern that doesn't actually exist. I think we need more samples (I'd imagine some selection bias on HN)

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#78

Post by mrlala »

danielg6 wrote: post #65
mrlala wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is no normal I mean, yeah there is? There are 7 billion people on this planet. If you could create some score of peoples intelligence, how they react/respond to people, their normal physical movements and put that into a distribution the autistic people would definitely be on the tail end of the curves. Sure everyone is different in various ways- but a lot of those differences are very small compared to the di…

It’s just semantics. There are negative connotations associated with calling someone “normal” versus “abnormal”. I’m sure you’re polite enough to not describe people in wheel chairs as “abnormal”. The non-controversial terms that people use related to issues like autism are “neurotypical” and “neurodivergent”.

>It’s just semantics

No it's not... I was responding to someone who said there is no "normal". Yeah, there is. Most people behave in a way you would expect. Most people exhibit motor controls the way you would expect. A minority of people, and specifically people with autism, really do think in a "different" way and exhibit strange motor functions at times that most people do not.

I don't think we have to dance around politically correct terms here. I'm using normal in the statistical sense. Statistically, most people are very neurologically similar and then some people are (relatively) wildly different.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#79

Post by AstralStorm »

erikgaas wrote: post #41
Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

I took a neuroscience course back in the day that discussed findings related to autism. I don't remember everything, but there was a discussion on excess dopamine early in the brain and a later depression of glutamate levels. All in all this would lead to more sparsity of neural activations in the brain. This made sense. Too much dopamine would lead to excess plasticity, causing a normal amount of glutamate to have t…

You're building a theoretical treatment based on a theory you have not validated. (I'm not aware of any reasonable validation in e.g. a model organism at least.)

So, go back, and first check or devise a model. Model organism for autism is a very hard problem.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#80

Post by dekhn »

wnevets wrote: post #54
bogwog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That digit ratio stuff has always weirded me out. There are even some studies that show certain ratios correspond with homosexuality. That wikipedia page even has a huge table with a list of stuff like having a high digit ratio corresponds to reduced financial trading ability, and a low digit ratio corresponds to a longer penis. That shit is weird.

People tend to forget just how important hormones can be and just assume everything is because of genes.

hormones are proteins encoded by genes that affect gene transcription. Many hormones respond to entirely internal signals. So, much of what hormones do have a root cause in genomes (but, there are definitely limits on that statement).
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