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High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

sciencedaily.com

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Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#41

Post by erikgaas »

Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

I took a neuroscience course back in the day that discussed findings related to autism. I don't remember everything, but there was a discussion on excess dopamine early in the brain and a later depression of glutamate levels. All in all this would lead to more sparsity of neural activations in the brain. This made sense. Too much dopamine would lead to excess plasticity, causing a normal amount of glutamate to have too great of an effect, so the brain compensates by producing less glutamate, producing the same amount of neural activations but now sparsely spread out in a post-plastic brain. From my naive common sense perspective, it would make sense that an autism prevention would be some mechanism to limit plasticity during development. I'm really stretching argument here, but maybe this has some connection to autism brains "kicking in" early.

The connection to estrogen is an interesting one. Estrogen does have an important effect on neurotransmitter receptors, including dopaminergic, but my speculation is worthless here. Is there anyone here that has a better understanding of this that can provide some clarity?

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#42

Post by peeters »

RmDen wrote: post #38
Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

ok..now I am confused which hand do you look at?.. On my left hand..index and ring finger are about the same.... on my right hand the ring finger is longer

For me it varies widely depending on how I hold my hand. If I place them flat on a surface, palm down, fingers together, my ring fingers look longer. If I look at them palm towards me, fingers separated, extended, but relaxed, it's clear the index fingers are longer on both hands.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#43

Post by deckar01 »

MartianSquirrel wrote: post #33
Nimitz14 wrote: post #21

> However, the team cautioned that these findings cannot and should not be used to screen for autism. "We are interested in understanding autism, not preventing it," added Professor Baron-Cohen. I don't understand why not?

One shall not see a difference as something bad. Many autistic people have tremendously contributed to our society. The goal in this case is to develop the knowledge and tools that will help everyone use this as a strength.

Autism is a disorder that can require medical treatment. If a doctor could screen for risk factors and provide medication to pregnant women that reduced the chances of autism developing in the child, it would be their duty.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#44

Post by danbolt »

majos wrote: post #24
danbolt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I had no idea the rate was so high. I’ve seen one study[1] that sampled for ~7%, but not 25%. Do you have a link I could read? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904453/

Not parent, but closest thing I can find is the Kaltiala-Heino et al. study [1], found from p7 in this literature review [2]. There it's summarized as "26% of those who had experienced gender dysphoria had previous diagnosis of ASD". But that study has only 47 people (none adults), all drawn from a pair of Finnish hospitals. It looks like an outlier among the others, which suggest something more like 5%. [1] https://…

Thanks for posting the studies. This might be considered bad faith but the parent comment struck me as anecdotal and I wanted to press where those sources were coming from.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#45

Post by aidenn0 »

danharaj wrote: post #5

Something like 1 in 4 transgender women are also autistic. If this study holds any water that might be an interesting investigation.

Two of the three openly trans women I know have ASD siblings; I hadn't ever thought about the connection before.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#46

Post by Inthenameofmine »

amasad wrote: post #25

Would be interesting to see what causes high estrogen in the studied women. My guess would be obesity, and potentially plant-based diet high in soy products.

I think the soy idea has been debunked for some time now. The main external estrogen source is milk and to some extend meat products.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#47

Post by eridan2 »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #21

> However, the team cautioned that these findings cannot and should not be used to screen for autism. "We are interested in understanding autism, not preventing it," added Professor Baron-Cohen. I don't understand why not?

maybe because we could have a lot of bad side effects if we try to prevent something we don't understand

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#48

Post by rolltiide »

danbolt wrote: post #8
danharaj wrote: post #5

Something like 1 in 4 transgender women are also autistic. If this study holds any water that might be an interesting investigation.

Interesting, I had no idea the rate was so high. I’ve seen one study[1] that sampled for ~7%, but not 25%. Do you have a link I could read? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2904453/

Interesting, even at 7%, this autistic population could be creating the unfavorable perceptions of trans women and confirming people’s pre-existing beliefs of mental health issues because enough of their quirky or negative experiences with trans women are “just” with autistic people

As in, one circumstance is being conflated with another circumstance and this is counterproductive for everyone

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#50

Post by loceng »

Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

Couldn't you classify what you described as early trauma - highly stressful situation? I ask because I would have been considered Asperger's as a child, however was never formally diagnosed, and I had I'd call traumatic, a few childhood experiences with severe pain. It was however a series of events in my early 20s lead me to developing a severe hypersensitivity to sound, which then through trying to problem solve, discovered a sound therapy - with a diagnostic method of determining if the therapy would help before doing it - I did it, and it helped me dramatically, including unblocking whatever developmental blocks had occurred at an early age; I had extremely painful ear infections as a child, very stressful for the nervous system - and at a time of rapid brain development - and without going into more detail now, which I have in the past on HN, whatever coping mechanisms lead to autistic characteristics relating to processing feelings, emotion, focusing, which cascade learning, attention, etc. The sound therapy can potentially help the full autism spectrum, of course what the cause is will likely impact who will benefit from it; you also don't lose any of your skills developed, things just flow easier, and you may have gain access to sensory in a more balanced manner, leading to better self-regulation. The therapy I did is called Auditory Integration Training or Berard AIT for short; there is also another method called the Tomatis method which is apparently more effective if the trauma occurred while still in the womb. There are other sound therapies out there claiming to be beneficial, marketing themselves efficiently, however I'm uncertain of their methods - something I someday hope to test adequately with proper research comparing sound therapies.
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