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Norweigan oil fund

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Re: Norweigan oil fund

#271

Post by dmix »

refurb wrote: post #251
rfwhyte wrote: post #216

One of the most mind blowing things to me, is that where I'm from (Canada) we've pumped almost 2.5 times more oil and gas than Nowrway over the past 30 years, yet our "oil fund" is somewhere around $20 Billion. Norway decided the benefits of resource extraction should be universal, while my country decided that the benefits should go to the wealthy and multi-national corporations.

The wealthy? You do realize the gov't has a per barrel royalty on each barrel extracted. And that's why some provinces are wealthier than others? What a odd comment.

If it's not 100% managed by the government it's only helping evil rich people and multinational corporations... that's how economics works in certain political circles.

Despite the thousands of workers it employs directly, supply chain income it generates to countless smaller firms, the actual oil being transported and exported, etc etc. All of those are heavily taxed and all of that "distributes" income to regular people whether through (often high paying) jobs or a higher tax income for the state.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#272

Post by magicalhippo »

eisa01 wrote: post #104
punnerud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sales tax is 25% (lower on food + public transport). Income tax is close to 50% for most of people (progressive), in addition there is a 14% tax per employee that the companies have to pay. If you take out dividend there is a 25% tax that don't earn you pension.

Average income tax (as taken from your paycheck), seems to be around 30% - it’s lower than many other north west European countries

But coupled with the VAT of 25% the effective tax rate is closer to 50%.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#273

Post by flaviojuvenal »

punnerud wrote: post #156
ekr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farouk al-Kasim is the Iraqi who is said to have played a big role in this outcome. I believe his story has been on HN before: https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feab...

And I think Brazil is trying to replicate the model

how so?

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#274

Post by hcurtiss »

kaibee wrote: post #268
hcurtiss wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Many Americans are so ashamed of the US, when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right -- certainly relative to many other countries. The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. There are always in which a society can improve, but man -- let's not forget what's worked well.

> The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. The things that made America so wealthy were changed pre-2000. It takes time for those changes to really impact society, and for people to realize it. And no one really talking about "fundamental" change. They're talking about raising taxes back to what they used to be…

While there are many other proposals, that kind of tax policy change would, in itself, definitely be a big change. I encourage people to use this calculator to determine your effective tax rate at various times in the past. If your family is like mine, reverting to the tax policy of the 60s and 70s would be a very large hit to us every year.

https://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#275

Post by duderific »

hcurtiss wrote: post #260
navigatesol wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what to say about Americans, who squandered natural resources Yeah, they squandered their natural resources on the way to becoming the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the planet... How can people say things like this with a straight face? The fact that there are some tough political issues that have or may span a couple decades doesn't erase centuries of history, or millennia of future prospects…

Exactly right. Many Americans are so ashamed of the US, when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right -- certainly relative to many other countries. The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. There are always in which a society can improve, but man -- let's not forget what's worked well.

I think the reasons for that are twofold:

1) There is a tendency to focus on the negative

2) The general trend of wealth inequality has been going in the wrong direction for many, many years and it is only getting worse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#276

Post by asdfgasd »

hcurtiss wrote: post #260
navigatesol wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what to say about Americans, who squandered natural resources Yeah, they squandered their natural resources on the way to becoming the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the planet... How can people say things like this with a straight face? The fact that there are some tough political issues that have or may span a couple decades doesn't erase centuries of history, or millennia of future prospects…

Exactly right. Many Americans are so ashamed of the US, when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right -- certainly relative to many other countries. The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. There are always in which a society can improve, but man -- let's not forget what's worked well.

> when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right

US prosperity is largely a function of imperialism and military might, not some magical economic formula.

For instance, in South America:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

The US government overthrew a democratically elected government for the prosperity of a _fruit company_.

> all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way.

Many of the people are fighting the systems that have heavily exploited poor countries around the world for the last ~100 years because they see it as fundamentally immoral. The US doesn't _deserve_ the standard of living it has achieved, and it's built on the blood of dead South Americans and Middle Eastern people.

It's honestly pathetic that poor Americans aren't provided for given the absolute spoils of war the elite have enjoyed.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#277

Post by Kjeldahl »

Surprised nobody mentioned that the whole fund and its future returns have been promised away already as future pension for the people working for the government (far too many). This is due to politicians and a too large part of the population that mistake "feeling good" as "being smart", and failure to recognize that the economic model that has worked for as long as the oil revenues kept flowing in, will stop working once the oil revenues start declining. There is no frugality, and all the traditional parties on the right/conservative side would be characterized as socialist in most other developed countries. And as the government overspending keeps growing, so do the taxes...

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#278

Post by duderific »

dg4 wrote: post #253

It's interesting to me that they don't appear to hold private equity or venture funds, unless I'm missing something. Presumably at that scale they have unlimited access to any asset class in the world. Does anyone have any insight as to why they might be avoiding those?

My guess would be that they are considered too risky.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#279

Post by hcurtiss »

asdfgasd wrote: post #276
hcurtiss wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Many Americans are so ashamed of the US, when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right -- certainly relative to many other countries. The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. There are always in which a society can improve, but man -- let's not forget what's worked well.

> when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right US prosperity is largely a function of imperialism and military might, not some magical economic formula. For instance, in South America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... The US government overthrew a democratically elected government for the prosperity of a _fruit company_. > all it seems anyone talks about is how to…

Oh please. If imperialism and military might were the source of a country's wealth, then Mongolia would be on top, and Russia, and the sun would have never set on Great Britain. No, strong property and contract rights combined with the rule of law and relatively low corruption is what made the US wealthy. And, yes, natural resource extraction and up until recently relatively prudent management of its fiscal resources.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#280

Post by buboard »

kyruzic wrote: post #261
buboard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway was lucky to be a very developed society before oil was discovered. In most countries oil is a curse

The US and Canada (Alberta) both were as well. Yet both have massive debt instead of huge amounts of money.

as mentioned elsewhere, they don't export nearly as much oil
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