Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims • Hacker News Board

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#321

Post by kd5bjo » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:40 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #248

harryh wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you want to borrow money, the person loaning you money is generally going to insist that you opt into the system that helps them understand if you are a good credit risk or not. That's not an unfair request on their part. Don't want to participate? Then don't ask for a loan.

> Don't want to participate? Then don't ask for a loan. This is not pragmatic advice. I needed to take out loans to go to college. My phone company did a credit check before they'd let me sign up for a plan. So did my landlord before they offered me a lease. When I buy a car or apply for a mortgage on a house, they'll also check my credit. This system is deeply ingrained in our society; there's not really a way to op…

> This system is deeply ingrained in our society; there's not really a way to opt out and still have a relatively normal life.

And this is what needs to change. I’ve known many successful people that moved to the US and then had problems getting services because they had no “credit history”.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#322

Post by maehwasu » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

Sacho wrote: post #312

seandougall wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then don't ask for a loan. Translation: Don't participate in the economy unless you're independently wealthy. Conveniently left out: Don't ever apply to rent a house or an apartment. Instead, buy a home. In cash, of course, because you're independently wealthy. Oh, and also: Don't apply for a job. Because, you know, independently wealthy and all that. The idea that non-participation in the credit racket is anything…

Er... this is exactly how it works in developing / third-world countries. My parents managed to obtain a loan for their first apartment thanks to my grandparents offering their house as colllateral. This is how pretty much everyone from my parents' generation got their first apartment. Credit pretty much didn't exist in my parents' generation - loans were generally reserved for houses and cars, because of the strict…

It's difficult to participate in an economy like the US where the prices of home purchases (and, by extension, rents), are driven up by competing buyers who have access to copious amounts of cheap credit.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#323

Post by sfifs » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

elcomet wrote: post #318

frereubu wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great 99% Invisible episode about how credit cards came about, and what it was like beforehand, where you would be interviewed at length by a store before being given credit to buy, for example, a piece of furniture. Credit cards were designed to outsource checking of credit-worthiness, stop intrusive interviews with stores and avoid embarrassment of being rejected in-store. Lax digital storage of informati…

Coming from Europe, it would never occur to me to buy furniture on credit, is this something common in the US ?

Would you possibly be in the top 20% household income percentile? For such households, it's generally not required to buy furniture in credit in most markets. Credit for these sortse of things generally is for people with lower income

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#324

Post by Cthulhu_ » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

elcomet wrote: post #318

frereubu wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great 99% Invisible episode about how credit cards came about, and what it was like beforehand, where you would be interviewed at length by a store before being given credit to buy, for example, a piece of furniture. Credit cards were designed to outsource checking of credit-worthiness, stop intrusive interviews with stores and avoid embarrassment of being rejected in-store. Lax digital storage of informati…

Coming from Europe, it would never occur to me to buy furniture on credit, is this something common in the US ?

Furniture can often be sold on credit or with payments, because it can be a pretty big investment (e.g. a good bed). Mind you, can be - chains like ikea offer products at a price that should be payable from savings.

But it's also pretty common for cars and houses and the like.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#325

Post by mattacular » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

Sacho wrote: post #312

seandougall wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then don't ask for a loan. Translation: Don't participate in the economy unless you're independently wealthy. Conveniently left out: Don't ever apply to rent a house or an apartment. Instead, buy a home. In cash, of course, because you're independently wealthy. Oh, and also: Don't apply for a job. Because, you know, independently wealthy and all that. The idea that non-participation in the credit racket is anything…

Er... this is exactly how it works in developing / third-world countries. My parents managed to obtain a loan for their first apartment thanks to my grandparents offering their house as colllateral. This is how pretty much everyone from my parents' generation got their first apartment. Credit pretty much didn't exist in my parents' generation - loans were generally reserved for houses and cars, because of the strict…

That is hardly relevant to this discussion about modern United States economy and society. Your story even involves needing grandparents who own property to use as collateral.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#326

Post by pergadad » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #320

elcomet wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Europe, it would never occur to me to buy furniture on credit, is this something common in the US ?

I'm also European, but buying furniture on credit is perfectly normal in my country - indeed, it would be quite unusual to buy any big-ticket item and not be offered credit terms, usually with an interest-free option.

Being offered whether actually planning to buy on credit are different things. I'm German and would never buy furniture for which I don't have the money (exception maybe if the oven breaks and I don't have enough at hand) - but I'd never buy a sofa paying as instalments.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#327

Post by jdietrich » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

Glawen wrote: post #304

benj111 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is in Europe (for now) and has Equifax and the other credit reference agencies.

The UK imports all the shitty things from the US, instead of looking at what the european are doing: - No national ID, so identity theft is easier - For a long time, no pin code on credit card, so that theft is easier Basically they keep the stuff which trick the consumer, whereas in Europe they make law to protect consumer. I really hope they leave the EU and stop bothering us with their shitty ideas, credit referen…

>No national ID, so identity theft is easier

We don't want national identity cards; the Blair government tried to introduce them in 2006 and failed due to massive public opposition. We think it's a bit weird that other EU nationals are so tolerant of the government having a massive centralised database tied to a single token.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006

>For a long time, no pin code on credit card, so that theft is easier

Most of our debit card market is Visa/Mastercard, so we switched to Chip and PIN in 2006 - the same time as most international markets. Some European markets had their own local debit card schemes but these schemes were far from perfect.

>Basically they keep the stuff which trick the consumer, whereas in Europe they make law to protect consumer.

Last time I checked, we were still in the EU and still subject to EU law. We implemented the GDPR (and our regulator is one of the most proactive in actually enforcing it), we implemented the Consumer Rights Directive and we were well ahead of the curve in many areas, particularly distance selling and consumer finance.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#328

Post by mamon » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 10:04 AM UTC

sfifs wrote: post #323

elcomet wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Europe, it would never occur to me to buy furniture on credit, is this something common in the US ?

Would you possibly be in the top 20% household income percentile? For such households, it's generally not required to buy furniture in credit in most markets. Credit for these sortse of things generally is for people with lower income

In my country lower income people usually save money first (even if they need to save for a long time, like a year or two), then buy expensive items, like furniture.

Typically it works like this: people simply try not to spend their whole income, and save at least some part of it. Then, when they arrive at a significant amount of it they sit down and think: what can we do with those money? buy a new car? redecorate our living room? And if they decide to redecorate they buy furniture or whatever is needed with cash. Buying stuff on credit is pretty much unheard of.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#329

Post by jaclaz » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

svennek wrote: post #303

beefield wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I am not that confident about that. I live in Europe, and to my knowledge we do not have that kind of credit score companies (there are databases about people who have defaulted their debts, though), and to my knowledge it is banks themselves that do the credit evaluation.[1] And credit for middle class is to my standards pretty cheap enough here as well. [1] More than happy to be corrected here with sources,…

Of course they do (exist in Europe). Most companies giving you a credit of some sort (banks, phone contracts, ...) are required to do vetting of you. To help them do that, they use credit rating bureaus. In Europe, you as a private person just don't know it and don't have access to your own rating. But you are likely to be rated anyways.. Here is one danish example (at least three exists) https://translate.google.com…

In Italy there is a Centrale Rischi, but is a government/public service (run by the Bank of Italy):

https://www.bancaditalia.it/statistiche/raccolta-dati/centra...

and I believe that in the end (now it is partial/experimental/in the works AFAICU) there will be an European Registry at the BCE (Anacredit):

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/money_credit_banking/anacred...

Though there is no "public" access to the data in the Centrale Rischi, you can have it going in person to the Bank of Italy, the issue is that - if you find an error/mistake - it must be corrected by the bank/agency/whatever that made the erroneous entry, and this can sometimes be a nightmare, not so much with banks, but with smallish financial service agancies (that might have - in the meantime - changed property or going in default, etc.).

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#330

Post by p49k » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 10:22 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #221

harryh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math behind credit scores is quite good. They're very effective at predicting credit risk.

This statement, which is currently greyed out, is an objective statement of engineering fact about one of the most important technologies introduced in the last one hundred years. I hope I have bought enough street cred to say the following by ghostwriting hundreds of letters to the credit reporting agencies to fix their problems, which are numerous and essentially inevitable given their model and present operations.…

I’m sorry, but it’s pretty absurd to boldly claim that credit scores are provably objective with regard to race, etc. I’d recommend reading _The Big Test_ for another history of a supposedly objective measurement of merit (the SAT) which turned out to be highly discriminatory. Removing discrimination from a system is not as simple as removing such info from its inputs.