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Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

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Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#221
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the same math they use to calculate our credit scores and everything else they screw up.

The math behind credit scores is quite good. They're very effective at predicting credit risk.

This statement, which is currently greyed out, is an objective statement of engineering fact about one of the most important technologies introduced in the last one hundred years.

I hope I have bought enough street cred to say the following by ghostwriting hundreds of letters to the credit reporting agencies to fix their problems, which are numerous and essentially inevitable given their model and present operations.

Credit scores are important because they allow banks to do standardized, automated underwriting for effectively free at 2 AM in the morning, which is what makes credit abundantly available in the United States and one of the reasons why it is so cheap to the middle class. (This routinely escapes the notice of people in the middle class, but the ordinary operation of banks is to advance well-organized people money for free and pay you to be chosen to do so, partly due to credit scores making this a derisked proposition and partly due to interchange revenue.)

Credit scores decimated the costs of unsecured consumer loans, as is readily observable by seeing what loan availability, pricing, and the "credit box" looks like when they're not available for underwriting. (This is a term of art in consumer credit that I provide for your future Googling pleasure, not having enough time to explain it at the moment.) Compare the cost on a cash advance on any card in your wallet to a payday lender. That delta is substantially (not solely) due to credit scores, both in improved understanding of default risk and in reduced operational cost (of underwriting and servicing, both enabled by the scoring infrastructure).

Credit scores are an important justice-enhancing technology because they make the inputs to an underwriting decision objectively observable and for the first time in history those inputs provably do not include race, religion, etc.

There is an argument which is not immediately dismissible that credit scores are based on borrower behavior which reflects the socioeconomic realities of the United States and therefore somehow effectively encode race, but it is an obvious improvement that banks now mechanically reach the same decision on similarly situated white and black borrowers. Regulation did not make that happen. FICO did.

I think well-off computer programmers should understand that there is a societal tradeoff which buys "middle class black Americans have the same access to credit you do" at the cost of Equifax knowing your credit limits; understand that if you are advocating for rolling back the second you should accept that ceteris paribus we will experience material disimprovement on the first.

(Obligatory disclaimer: personal opinion here.)

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The contract you agree to for credit cards or other forms of debt you choose to take on will specify things like late fees and that it's up to the company's discretion whether they report you a late payment to the agencies. If they didn't have this clause, you'd just be complaining that they report everyone indiscriminately rather than giving people a break when it seems appropriate. Thanks for making ridiculous as…

But you're putting nonsense in the creditor's mouth. You don't know what the conversation was like, you only have the summary of one person who feels wronged.

All I did was I took the story at face value and asked a legal question without saying anything else about anyone. You felt I was somehow "putting nonsense in the creditor's mouth". OK, so why make a ridiculous response instead of just telling me I should wait to hear the other side's story? Or even better, maybe asking what I was thinking in the first place instead of putting your own nonsense in my mouth?

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that clearly. But clearly there are classes of institutions and people who... 1. Make a mockery of prudent allocation of money and get bailed out when their games get messed up 2. Mess up the purchasing power of any money you possess far more than any individual defaults or even class of individual defaults 3. Impose grave and hidden responsibilities on individual borrowers and mass surveillance... They…

What are these "grave and hidden responsibilities" you're talking about? Paying your bills is hardly an obscure pastime. As for your PS, I don't respond to conspiracy theories.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/life-expectancy-pension-retir...

Is the World Economic Forum a purveyor of conspiracy theories? Is our reduced purchasing power at the level of food and rent a conspiracy theory?

Edit: My apologies, here's the actual WEF press release https://www.weforum.org/press/2017/05/global-pension-timebom...

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've considered doing this. Isn't it an easy defence for them to say "there's no way you can attribute the leak to us, case dismissed?" Actually asking because I had the same thought as you.

There's no proof Equifax or court can provide that my information was leaked from a source other than Equifax.

If you go after them, yours probably have to prove they are likely the ONLY before that Leaked your information .... You're not the defendant nor do you pay any judges or congressmen off, so you need to climb the hill.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But making it the customer’s responsibility is cool? In any case, I read this as the notice that payment was required is what got lost, not the payment itself.

Ah, you may be right, but even that still makes the report valid. Let me tell you what I hear as a business person if you tell me my letter to you was misdelivered: "My mail delivery is unreliable so it's your problem." Well, no, you didn't tell me it was unreliable, so I couldn't adjust my risk perception or take special precautions. And if you ever want to do business with me again, you're going to come in and exec…

As a business person, you’d put a customer through the wringer for one missed payment due to communication problems? I hope you have a monopoly in whatever market you serve, because otherwise that’s a great way to lose all of your customers.

Anyway, we’re back to making it the responsibility of the customer with a thousand more important things to think about, rather than of the business that’s dedicated to the stuff.

And if you think it should be that way, great. But it’s obvious to me that it is that way because of the power imbalance, not because it’s right.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're putting nonsense in the creditor's mouth. You don't know what the conversation was like, you only have the summary of one person who feels wronged.

All I did was I took the story at face value and asked a legal question without saying anything else about anyone . You felt I was somehow "putting nonsense in the creditor's mouth". OK, so why make a ridiculous response instead of just telling me I should wait to hear the other side's story? Or even better, maybe asking what I was thinking in the first place instead of putting your own nonsense in my mouth?

I’m not the one who accused someone of a crime based on a late fee.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#227
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not "default opt-in", like having the "Subscribe to our email newsletter" checked on an online order form. The sharing of credit worthiness information is the cornerstone of your ability to get credit. It's not a hidden extra, it's not something you can choose not to get, there's no "opt out". It's a condition of doing business with the credit grantor. It's like opting out of having a driver's license. If you…

> The sharing of credit worthiness information is the cornerstone of your ability to get credit. It's not a hidden extra, it's not something you can choose not to get, there's no "opt out". It's a condition of doing business with the credit grantor. No, this is only true because the law does not meaningfully restrict abusive contracts. Sure, a credit card issuer should [0] be able to ask some agency for information o…

> It does not follow at all that the issuer should have permission to give information back to the agency.

The agreements you sign when requesting and getting credit explicitly grant that right.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you may be right, but even that still makes the report valid. Let me tell you what I hear as a business person if you tell me my letter to you was misdelivered: "My mail delivery is unreliable so it's your problem." Well, no, you didn't tell me it was unreliable, so I couldn't adjust my risk perception or take special precautions. And if you ever want to do business with me again, you're going to come in and exec…

As a business person, you’d put a customer through the wringer for one missed payment due to communication problems? I hope you have a monopoly in whatever market you serve, because otherwise that’s a great way to lose all of your customers. Anyway, we’re back to making it the responsibility of the customer with a thousand more important things to think about, rather than of the business that’s dedicated to the stuff…

If the customer is using it as an excuse, yes I would. They’re trying to weasel out of their responsibilities, responsibilities they almost certainly incurred voluntarily.

If you don’t make payments as agreed, your credit score goes down. If you do, it goes up, and will soon recover from the perfectly reasonable dip it took from your mistake. It’s pretty simple.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#229

why do we even use these companies?

Kinda no choice and even if you don't use them banks and other places you have relations with share data with them... Go to the hospital but never pay your bill? They will go tell Equifax or the other big 2.

I kinda think the whole credit system is kinda odd anyways. Someone was starting a business and didn't have any credit to co-sign for the company to get credit to help pay as they needed to scale up. Yet someone who just buys chicken nuggets once a month on their credit card and pay it off in full who makes less money would have a better score than someone who makes millions but is very anti-credit.

I think having credit is good though and it depends on the states but car insurance companies, apartments/real estate and employers factor in your credit score too. If you have low credit and have a job where you deal with cash like say a cashier, someone with low credit is more likely to steal or wreck their car is the assumption. So using to measure how responsible you are.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#230
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you want to borrow money, the person loaning you money is generally going to insist that you opt into the system that helps them understand if you are a good credit risk or not. That's not an unfair request on their part. Don't want to participate? Then don't ask for a loan.

There aren't any other options though. No one is going to set you red-line their contracts. No one. I have personally walked away from work agreements for jobs when they wouldn't remove non-compete clauses, but not everyone has that option. There is no "meeting of the minds" here in any real sense.

You wouldn't expect to be able to redline the part of a loan contract where you have to pay the money back. This is similar to that.

Just because you don't have options to cut essential parts of the contract out doesn't mean there is no "meeting of the minds."

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