Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#111

Post by orwin » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:30 AM UTC

monetus wrote: post #97

majidazimi wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. What I meant is, shit happens all the time and you have to be prepared for that. Medication cost didn't cause me an issue, because I save my money quite aggressively. Being poor (by global standards) in a developed country heavily depends on person's lifestyle and decisions.

We have long wait times here in the U.S. too, at least in my experience. Two months for my last specialist, three weeks for a gp. This isn't a competition, so please don't take it that way; what I'm saying is that, despite your anecdote, I'm desperate for your healthcare (at least I think I am). I'm really curious if there are situations there, akin to those faced by the uninsured here, where corners are cut to save…

Yes.

French hospitals are underfunded and desesperate right now. They cut corners everytime they can, often on the back of nurses and mediacl assistants (who are wholly underpaid). Doctors are in an okay position, but some specialties lack specialists (especially in position where French medical education is really good, or very lucrative: i.e. surgery and anesthesia). We are far from a great medical country. I would happily give another 100€ per month to resolve those issue (and i do somehow with not asking for rembursment after consultations as i can easely afford those).

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#112

Post by eikenberry » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:31 AM UTC

> Defined by the percentage of the population earning less than half of the median national income,

I'm not sure I buy their definition of poverty. It speaks more about the income disparity than people living in without basic food and shelter covered, which I think the term implies. It might be more meaningful if it were the mean, but as is a few really high income earners would skew the results. I don't think using the medium makes sense as a calculation of poverty giving modern wealth distribution.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#113

Post by mgoetzke » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

SubiculumCode wrote: post #65

ThJ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Norway. The backside of the medal when it comes to welfare services of that kind is the rather humiliating process you have to go through to actually get them. I've heard many stories about this. Yes, you'll get help if you do as they say, but it can feel very invasive at times. Some clueless bureaucrat will need to know about your finances and all your medical issues, and if it's not a clear-cut case, these…

This is why I support a universal basic income without means testing i.e. universal.

Me too, though in the case of big medical issues etc there will still be a requirement to somehow get more than that. Same with unemployment benefits etc. E.g a 1000 $ per person is not good enough should you find yourself unemployed suddenly. Some insurance (private or gov or both) will remain.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#114

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:49 AM UTC

maehwasu wrote: post #94

raverbashing wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Backside" All of this sounds like just regular checks to prevent abuse of the system "Humiliating"? Maybe, but that's their job. No I don't think it could be much different. Of course it's not an utopia, but I've heard much worse from countries much less well off than the US. I don't think any country does that much better than Norway tbh

Agree—it’s perfectly reasonable for them to do this, and likely the only way the system could function at good cost and without abuse. However, the problem in an American context is that people would likely see this as invasive. They’d demand the free treatment without the privacy invasions needed to make it work. To be clear, I think the tradeoff is absolutely worth it, but America’s track record in making reasonabl…

> the problem in an American context is that people would likely see this as invasive

Stop miseducating them.

People has been educated to accept their TV spying and registering their home conversations all day as the new normal, but 'this' is too invasive?.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#115

Post by majidazimi » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:55 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #109

majidazimi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from? I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too lat…

If you were poor in the US you'd have had the same result, but with a doctor's bill on top.

I wasn't rich either. I saved enough to survive the incident. save people, save!

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#116

Post by esailija » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

majidazimi wrote: post #76

hestipod wrote: post #33

I was disabled by bad surgery and lost my career. No system that ostensibly should have helped, did. Denied. Denied. Denied. YEARS of adversarial, not default helpful, meetings and challenges and interviews. I saw people worse than me refused help. I saw real time as people who knew me for years or life, who respected me and my career choice helping others, decided I was a lazy mooch who wasn't trying hard enough, wa…

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from? I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too lat…

Having your ear wax not removed quickly will not cause permanent tinnitus, that's ridiculous. If tinnitus is caused by ear wax it will be gone after removal.

It is the removal process that can cause permanent tinnitus[1], like ear irrigation done incorrectly, which would be your doctor's fault.

I have 2 different permanent tinnitus caused by improper ear irrigation (one by a nurse and one by myself), one is low freq thumping and one is like crickets. I use some kind of ear wax softener daily hoping I won't develop blockages again and risk more tinnitus.

1. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2ca6/54e2df68d4e3509cdafbc4...

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#117

Post by CalRobert » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 9:04 AM UTC

hestipod wrote: post #33

I was disabled by bad surgery and lost my career. No system that ostensibly should have helped, did. Denied. Denied. Denied. YEARS of adversarial, not default helpful, meetings and challenges and interviews. I saw people worse than me refused help. I saw real time as people who knew me for years or life, who respected me and my career choice helping others, decided I was a lazy mooch who wasn't trying hard enough, wa…

"get out of you don't like it"

Nobody saying this has actually researched it. Too many people in the states are under the impression you can just up and move to a European country, no problem. One friendly-but-clueless acquaintance got flown back from Heathrow for asking the immigration officer about where to find jobs when she landed.

If you don't/can't:

* work in tech or medicine

* go to university in Europe in a high-demand field

* woo a European to marry you (a favoured option among women I knew in college, I notice - wonder why the gender disparity?)

your options are pretty limited. There's the Dutch American Friendship Treaty and digging through the family bible for the birth cert of some Irish or Italian grandparent and that's about it.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#118

Post by majidazimi » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

esailija wrote: post #116

majidazimi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from? I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too lat…

Having your ear wax not removed quickly will not cause permanent tinnitus, that's ridiculous. If tinnitus is caused by ear wax it will be gone after removal. It is the removal process that can cause permanent tinnitus[1], like ear irrigation done incorrectly, which would be your doctor's fault. I have 2 different permanent tinnitus caused by improper ear irrigation (one by a nurse and one by myself), one is low freq…

The whistle noise started two days before cleaning it. After cleaning it started getting worse. Nowadays, it's variable. It goes up and down irregularly.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#119

Post by jacobush » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 9:09 AM UTC

jsmith99 wrote: post #102

rjf72 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine there was a button you could push that would give every single person everything you're mentioning - a free house, free healthcare, and all the things you're not mentioning - free education, free sustenance, free childcare, free longterm paid pa/maternal leave, guaranteed high paying jobs, etc. Who wouldn't push this button? I think every single individual, right/left/libertarian/liberal/conservative or whate…

> a free house, free healthcare, and all the things you're not mentioning - free education, free sustenance, free childcare, free longterm paid pa/maternal leave, guaranteed high paying jobs, etc The great majority of Americans nevertheless do have houses, healthcare, education, sustenance, childcare and jobs. This suggests that the economy can provide these things and that also providing them to the small proportion…

IMHO some free riders must accepted, or the system will be too draconian and or investigation heavy.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#120

Post by orwin » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 9:10 AM UTC

majani wrote: post #90

username90 wrote: post #73

I think the question should not be "Why are there so many poor in USA", but "Why does it suck so much to be poor in USA". I believe that the urban layout and exorbitant healthcare costs are the main issues. If poor neighborhoods were walkable and had cheap supermarkets with fresh produce then you wouldn't need a car, and the density would mean that you have plenty of potential friends within walking distance so you w…

It sucks to be poor because it sucks to be at the bottom of social hierarchies. This is an evolutionary feature of society, not a bug.

My biological grandfather (long story) is considered poor in the US, and is at the very bottom of the social hierarchy (you know, early 70 hippies that got stuck in the past?).

Yet he lives way better than at least half the US population imo, and would never trade his place with the other half. He live in a cabin in West Virginia, share 100 acres with two other people, have access to a natural gaz well for 100$ a year (shared with 4 other people). Free food, almost free gaz, free beer, and he make 20 to 50 bucks a month from playing banjo at local jam/bars. Well, winter sucks up there in the hills, but still. I think that the most he have worked in a year was 3 month doing odd construction jobs (I think the town name was Akron).

Being poor doesn't suck because you're poor, it sucks because you don't live well enough and you can't really enjoy life. If you're poor but live well enough, it doesn't really matter.