Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge • Hacker News Board

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#91

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:07 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #83

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

It’s amazing how many replies are poo-pooing your thoughts yet the financial reports demonstrate they are wrong. I have a good expensive DSLR that I haven’t touched in more than a year. Why? Cause the workflow stinks compared to my phones camera. - I have to remove the SD card - I have to bring out my computer and pop in the card - I have to sync it into Lightroom, which keeps all the photos in a totally different bi…

Financial reports don't demonstrate anything. You're providing an explanation without actually demonstrating that the provided explanation is the real reason. A shrinking DSLR market has been predicted by analysts (and manufacturers too) for ages now. The primary reason that keeps coming up is that people simply don't want to carry yet another device when their smartphone does more than an adequate job for general purpose photography. More and more the advantage of a larger sensor and better optics is only realized in a small range of professional usecases - Sports/action/wildlife photography, low-light events/astro photography, printing massive billboards, etc, etc.

>I think there is a untapped market for some higher end camera with interchangeable lenses that can seamlessly integrate with a modern workflow.

Sure, maybe there is. The real question is.. is it a tiny $1-2 million market or a larger 100+ million dollar market.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#92

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

prolepunk wrote: post #25

detaro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably more related to you paying 5x more, and not the brand...

Yes, but I feel cheated that Canon put their name on such a terrible product. I would be fine with no-name Chinese camera for the same amount of money, which by the way would have 4K and a hotshoe mount.

Panasonic makes a roughly $200ish camera, too, and it's also... "not great". 4x optical zoom, 720p, 230k display.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#93

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

tomatocracy wrote: post #80

tristor wrote: post #24

This isn't a surprise. Canon has lagged behind Sony on the sensor side of things for ages. Nikon was also lagging, but decided to do the right thing which was buy its sensors from Sony. For full-frame DSLR camera bodies, Nikon is far superior to Canon currently and has been for a long time. Canon has primarily survived off brand loyalty with professional photographers driven by the extremely high quality lenses they…

I think what has really hurt Canon is their failure so far in the mirrorless segment. As others have said, for quite a while they've relied in large part on high quality glass and people's glass investments within the EF ecosystem to drive people to that and retain them within it. It's worked well - they are "good enough" on the sensor side and have also won (or at least not lost) on things which professionals care a…

Well, the EOS R and RP are entry level cameras. They have yet to release a professional series mirrorless camera. Comparatively, the 1st gen Sony mirrorless systems were pretty bad. They had tiny bodies that overheated, had poor battery life, and had slow unreliable AF. Ofcource, The EOS R and RP won't be compared to Sony's 1st gen, which is very fair, but I don't think canon has failed in this market.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#94

Post by reustle » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

Maybe they could actually have a chance if they took note of what the users really wanted. Magic Lantern was one of the main reasons many friends of mine got a Canon, and the only reason it could exist is because some old source code leaked. Why not provide an open interface for that kind of stuff? Or at least provide similar features.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#95

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

hestipod wrote: post #26

goldcd wrote: post #23

I listened to an interesting podcast on Kodak - https://www.spectacularfailures.org/episode/2019/07/15/kodak... My previous perception which I think is common, is that due to the amount they made from non-digital, they ignored digital until it was too late. My revised perception after listening is that Kodak was right there at the cutting edge (and has the cameras and patents to prove it). Problem was how the company…

I thought about going back to film in order to get back into the hobby "cheaply", but quickly learned it was not going to be cheap at all and not worth the drawbacks even then. Prices are on the rise in all regards. Cameras and glass are "vintage" rather than just old, and priced accordingly. Film and processing costs are stupid high now, not on every corner like before, and not to mention the inability to process, l…

What is your budget?

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#96

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

reustle wrote: post #94

Maybe they could actually have a chance if they took note of what the users really wanted. Magic Lantern was one of the main reasons many friends of mine got a Canon, and the only reason it could exist is because some old source code leaked. Why not provide an open interface for that kind of stuff? Or at least provide similar features.

Because they want you to buy their expensive, professional EOS Cinema products for video use which have all the features you need.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#97

Post by mobjack » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #31

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

It's a huge investment in software and hardware for an almost non-existent user base. Most current DSLRs already have Wifi or a Wifi option; those that don't can be fitted with a Wifi SD card. It turns out that hardly anyone actually uses that feature, because Wifi transfer rates are generally a more problematic bottleneck than the inconvenience of pulling the SD card and putting it into a card reader. The main users…

Wifi tethering is cumbersome to set up and is a janky experience.

I want to take a picture of someone at a party and share it with them in a few seconds like I can do on my phone.

It is the main reason I don't use a DSLR much at all anymore.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#98

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

fetus8 wrote: post #12

rbritton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon's professional line has been lacking for years in the high ISO sensor performance. Their saving grace has been their lenses, which are still magnitudes better than the competition. That said, third party lensmakers like Sigma and Tamron have really been getting better in recent years, and the premium for Canon glass isn't always justifiable.

High ISO performance, and their auto-focusing systems are put to shame by just about every one else on the market. While their lens quality and EF mount have probably been their saving grace, I personally don't find their lenses to be worth the cost. I left the Canon ecosystem for Fujifilm's X-Series cameras, and cannot believe the IQ their lenses have, across the board, and they're priced very competitively. I'm jus…

How are they put to shame by everyone else on AF? Could you be more specific?

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#99

Post by zazaraka » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #87

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

> Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? I have Canon and Leica cameras, mid and high end, that do this. > Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? There are cameras that will. > how much more could adding a touch screen Notably Sony stands alone in being the only major manufacturer _without_ touch. > a simple auto-mode (which disables most buttons and hides advanced menus) Not sure about other ma…

> Not sure how this correlates to a "lack of vision from DSLR companies"

Where there is a will, there is a way. Just turn the camera into an android phone.

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2019/03/10/the-new-yongnuo-...

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#100

Post by hestipod » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

la_barba wrote: post #95

hestipod wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about going back to film in order to get back into the hobby "cheaply", but quickly learned it was not going to be cheap at all and not worth the drawbacks even then. Prices are on the rise in all regards. Cameras and glass are "vintage" rather than just old, and priced accordingly. Film and processing costs are stupid high now, not on every corner like before, and not to mention the inability to process, l…

What is your budget?

Right now honestly zero, unless I came across the deal of a lifetime that I believed I could justify responsibly long term. The film idea was fleeting and not realistic. If it becomes possible I am hoping to get a used full frame body with a good low light capability, like a 6d and a couple good lenses. A shutter replacement would be a likely need one day but can be found for a reasonable cost. But IQ and features would be enough. If the rest of the bits kept working/could be cheaply serviced, it could feasibly last me the rest of my life for my needs and wants despite whatever else comes along.