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The Invention of Money

newyorker.com

71–80 of 119 posts

Re: The Invention of Money

#71

Debt: The First 5,000 Years is my preferred introduction. Critically this New Yorker account is missing the word 'usury' which was largely agreed to be evil by early religions and societies that experienced its effects...

The word “usury” is almost solely employed as a coded anti-semitism dog whistle these days, so I really don’t take issue with the terms exclusion

Re: The Invention of Money

#72

So if gold is the only real money (and everything else is just debt)... What does gold’s year-long rally this year tell us?

If it breaks a certain threshold, then you can be certain it will be the global reserve currency again. People often forget how stable the world economy was under Bretton Woods.

There's not enough gold to go around. Gold isn't a very stable base for economies, as we can see throughout the hundreds of years of gold standards

Re: The Invention of Money

#73

The Money as Debt videos by Paul Grignon are a fantastic watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA&list=PLmpODdsfpr...

Except that they are not based on real facts. A much better explanation of how money is related to debt, which actually relies on established facts from the historical record, is "Debt: The First 5000 Years" by David Graeber.

David Graeber also did an excellent BBC Radio Series on the same subject - Promises, Promises: A History of Debt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b054zdp6/episodes/player - (registration required / geo limited)

Re: The Invention of Money

#74

So if gold is the only real money (and everything else is just debt)... What does gold’s year-long rally this year tell us?

Faith is the only real money. The only thing money measures is optimism about the future - both micro ("I am optimistic that you can repay this loan") macro ("I am optimistic this country's military spending and worker-hostile environment guarantees my investment will be protected"), corporate ("I am optimistic about the contents of this earnings call"), and specific ("I have more faith in this asset class than in ot…

Yes, and don't forget faith in the government's ability to collect taxes. This helps to stabilize money's value, since it ensures that everyone who pays taxes needs their government's money, regardless of whatever other kinds of money they might use.

As a result, faith in money becomes tied to faith in the government's ability to keep functioning, and this can be thought of as a base.

Re: The Invention of Money

#75

So if gold is the only real money (and everything else is just debt)... What does gold’s year-long rally this year tell us?

Faith is the only real money. The only thing money measures is optimism about the future - both micro ("I am optimistic that you can repay this loan") macro ("I am optimistic this country's military spending and worker-hostile environment guarantees my investment will be protected"), corporate ("I am optimistic about the contents of this earnings call"), and specific ("I have more faith in this asset class than in ot…

Functionally, gold serves as a lack of faith in fiat currency - almost as a short. When you expect inflation in your local fiat currency, you start looking at gold as a way of preserving your value.

Re: The Invention of Money

#76
post #7

Along the same vein, I can't recommend The Bitcoin Standard ( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36448501-the-bitcoin-sta... ) enough. The first 60% of the book deals with the creation and characteristics of fiat money and its effect in the World's economy.

The portion of the book on the history of money has very few references for its claims and makes numerous factual errors. If you’re looking for a well referenced book on the history of money, this is not the book.

Re: The Invention of Money

#77
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tangible items that aren't primarily faith-based are land and housing, so they do well as reliable investments. Why are you ignoring commodities? Wheat, iron, oil etc. are all commodities that are much more useful as a monetary base than land and housing because they are orders of magnitude more liquid (meaning you can acquire it and subsequently sell it while incurring a smaller loss).

Here's my educated guess. The commodities you mentioned work better as a "currency" than "stored value" for an individual. For a physical object to work as a stored value, especially over longer periods, it's got to be durable and convenient to store and protect. Real estate/land satisfies all those as long as the surrounding political situation remains stable. If the state turns rogue or falls apart then you are bet…

I don't remember the details, but someone asked a member of a rich European family how they had managed to preserve their wealth over centuries. The answer was "one third art, one third gold, one third land". Any of those can fail due to seizure, political instability, etc, but most of the time at least one will maintain value and remain under your control.

Re: The Invention of Money

#78
post #49
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier for somebody to have more faith in gold than in someone's promise to pay back a debt (using work or a commodity). Especially in dealings between sovereign entities.

So you basically ignore my comment, where I said something about just that, and write an auto-triggered response, got it. Did I just write to some customer service hotline?

Where in your comment did you say anything about that?

And personal attacks are against HN guidelines.

Re: The Invention of Money

#79
post #22

So if gold is the only real money (and everything else is just debt)... What does gold’s year-long rally this year tell us?

The value of gold is inversely correlated with the trust in government bonds. The reason is clear when reading the article; gold is the only real money so the higher the chances of defaults on bonds, the more attractive it becomes to swap paper money for gold. The current gold rally tells us that there is a lot of global political and economical uncertainty. Think of the Brexit, the Iran troubles and the global trade…

> The value of gold is inversely correlated with the trust in government bonds.

And government-issued currency.

> gold is the only real money

No. But gold is one of the better ways to, in essence, short fiat currency.

Re: The Invention of Money

#80

So if gold is the only real money (and everything else is just debt)... What does gold’s year-long rally this year tell us?

Faith is the only real money. The only thing money measures is optimism about the future - both micro ("I am optimistic that you can repay this loan") macro ("I am optimistic this country's military spending and worker-hostile environment guarantees my investment will be protected"), corporate ("I am optimistic about the contents of this earnings call"), and specific ("I have more faith in this asset class than in ot…

> Faith is the only real money.

Credit => credo => 'I believe'

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