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GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

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Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#311

Post by behdad »

marcthe12 wrote: post #6
dijit wrote: post #2

Same as Gitlab then[0]. US Sanctions should not affect internet services (so long as they are provided for free)[1], but political pressure appears to be very strong. Personally I find it quite abhorrent, and would cite this as a reason not to use US based companies in future. [0]: https://about.gitlab.com/2018/07/19/gcp-move-update/ [1]: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/...

The thing I am woried is that harfbuzz is developed by Iranian developer. It is an integral part of Linux font stack.

Hey. HarfBuzz maintainer here. I live in the States but one of our core developers is in Iran. This whole incident was a huge miscommunication on github. Fortunately they have addressed some of it. In short: Open Source and public repos are not affected at all. Cheers

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#312

Post by behdad »

LeonidasXIV wrote: post #8
marcthe12 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I am woried is that harfbuzz is developed by Iranian developer. It is an integral part of Linux font stack.

Behdad Esfahbod lives in Canada though, also most of his FOSS contribution (pango, fontconfig etc) are on the freedesktop.org and GNOME git repo servers, not GitHub.

Hey. Behdad here. I live in the States but one of our core developers is in Iran. This whole incident was a huge miscommunication on github. Fortunately they have addressed some of it. In short: Open Source and public repos are not affected at all. HarfBuzz has been on github. We will consider moving to fdo or GNOME gitlab if github becomes a problem. Cheers

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#313

Post by namirez »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #306
namirez wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy! Economic sanctions are not the only alternative to actual wars. In fact, they are a form of collective punishment that harm average citizens of these countries more than their governments. And this is not just about some inconvenienced github users; this has been a contentious issue in every natural disaster [1]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-floods-redcrescent/f...

In any situation, the people will be harmed by any form of action taken against its government. By this logic, it would never be considered reasonable to take any action at all against any government. When one country vows to wipe another country off the map, it’s reasonable for other countries to take some action against that. When a dictator spends the better part of a decade bombing its civilians, it’s reasonable…

> I’m really struggling to believe that an anti-war stance is now considered controversial on HN

I Don't know about HN, but I don't think an anti-war stance is controversial. Having said that, I believe, presenting economic sanctions as a humane alternative to war is deeply misleading. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#314

Post by [deleted] »

dijit wrote: post #2

Same as Gitlab then[0]. US Sanctions should not affect internet services (so long as they are provided for free)[1], but political pressure appears to be very strong. Personally I find it quite abhorrent, and would cite this as a reason not to use US based companies in future. [0]: https://about.gitlab.com/2018/07/19/gcp-move-update/ [1]: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/...

[deleted]

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#315

Post by AmericanChopper »

namirez wrote: post #313
AmericanChopper wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any situation, the people will be harmed by any form of action taken against its government. By this logic, it would never be considered reasonable to take any action at all against any government. When one country vows to wipe another country off the map, it’s reasonable for other countries to take some action against that. When a dictator spends the better part of a decade bombing its civilians, it’s reasonable…

> I’m really struggling to believe that an anti-war stance is now considered controversial on HN I Don't know about HN, but I don't think an anti-war stance is controversial. Having said that, I believe, presenting economic sanctions as a humane alternative to war is deeply misleading. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Economic sanctions are quite obviously an alternative to war (though perhaps not the only alternative), and if you look at recent administrations proclivity for intervention and regime change, it’s also quite obviously a change of tack.

Whether the sanctions are warranted is much more open to debate. But in Syria you have a regime that created the greatest humanitarian crisis of a generation, and in Iran you have a regime that repeatedly vows to wipe another country off the map, and an enormous proliferation risk. So I know what side of that debate I’d fall on, and I know what my preferences are when it comes to starting new wars.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#316

Post by AmericanChopper »

xtracto wrote: post #211
meitham wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US. The US sanctions wasn't enacted to help the Iranian people, but to weaken a country that the US perceives as an adversary.

This is important. This kind of actions have to be taken as what they are: unilateral actions of a country against another. It is just the US defending what it sees as they interests. But for the rest of the world it is just a maneuver. For some people in the USA it is difficult to see it. Given their (expected) skew towards their country. But people outside that country can see it with a more objective perspective.…

You’ve just described the foreign policy of every country in the world.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#317

Post by [deleted] »

cronix wrote: post #279
meitham wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US. The US sanctions wasn't enacted to help the Iranian people, but to weaken a country that the US perceives as an adversary.

> the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US It really would be sad if you controlled the media, religious doctrines as interpreted by the gov't (which you can't criticize), had censors, and couldn't pull that off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Iran

[deleted]

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#318

Post by AmericanChopper »

meitham wrote: post #307
StaticRedux wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? Or are the Iranian people too afraid of the Revolutionary Guard to say different? If you want to go that route, North Korea has the most popular government and leader on Earth. I don't think you can make claims about popularity of a government that can and does make people disappear who say otherwise.

Two very different cultures. there has been several protests in Tehran in the last decade with no execution. NK has their own culture too where it's just wrong to critise their rules (or their parents). we need to stop looking at the world from a globalised western lens.

This comment seems borderline satire. But I guess you’re right. There’s the western way of approving of your government, where you’re free to make up your mind about whether you do or not, and the way that they do it in North Korea and Iran, where you have to constantly fear the consequences of not approving of your government in the appropriate government prescribed manner.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#319

Post by AmericanChopper »

amaccuish wrote: post #285
AmericanChopper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These countries are run by some of the most violent and oppressive regimes in the world. Let’s not pretend that the US is responsible for the quality of life of the people living there. These sanctions are entirely non-violent. The actual word you’re looking for is harmful. They’re designed to be harmful, economically. Responding to regimes like this with economic pressure is most certainly preferable to actual viole…

> If the regime in Iran falls. It won’t be because of US sanctions. It will be because that country has been operated by a brutal dictator for decades, and the Iranian people grew tired of being the enemy of their own government. If so (that Iran falls not because of US sanctions), surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions? They would only serve to embitter the targeted population.

> surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions?

Not at all. Either the sanctions pressure Iran into changing their policies, or the sanctions restrict their ability or enact those policies.

Of course the US is pressuring Iran to act according to the Interests of the US. But if you want to criticize that, you’d have to look at what they are in this situation.

* Protecting allies in the region (which Iran openly and repeatedly vows to wipe of the map)

* Preventing nuclear proliferation

* Doing so while avoiding war

You have to try quite hard to apply the USA-is-just-a-bully trope to this situation.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#320

Post by snitko »

diminoten wrote: post #308
snitko wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't see it that way. If I set up a process once, using software that's been tested and been around for a while, it's extremely convenient. And free. And there's no risk of deplatforming.

You're completely ignoring feature parity, among many, many other things in your oversimplification... Ask any founder here: people don't generally randomly throw money without getting value; ergo these multibillion dollar services you're pretending are entirely replaceable with free tools offer some additional value .

I'm a founder. I'm extremely careful not throwing money. And I'm especially am aware of the changing environment. The internet is no longer free. You depend on a third party, you lose. The only true way is to gradually build your own infrastructure as you grow.
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