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BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

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Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#41

Post by khuey »

wbl wrote: post #34
hyperbovine wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not really a fair comparison. In terms of where people actually live (the upper two thirds of Sweden is almost empty) its roughly comparable to Ohio: about ten million people clustered in 4 or 5 major cities within a few hours drive distance from each other. Of course it will be easier to provide superior rail service there. This is not so say that Ohio has its act together as far as public transit is concerned…

We're talking about one of the richest parts of the US.

The Bay Area is one of the richest parts of the US on paper sure but much of that wealth comes from absurdly inflated land valuations that are taxed at very low rates.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#42

Post by concerned_user »

qaq wrote: post #26
moreira wrote: post #18

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. The US is really far behind other developed countries in a lot of ways but few people in the US notice because most Americans rarely ever look outside their culture bubble or see another country. There are big-ass tech companies, of course, but the…

I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me Europea…

I think you are wrong here, what you said is mostly about how it is in big cities versus the rural areas, same thing is in Europe. You will not find a lot of mass transit in European countryside, sure there are buses and trains probably more abundant than in USA but be prepared to walk a few kilometers to the nearest station.

Your point would make sense if USA had high-speed trains linking big cities but it doesn't, and the train routes that do exist experience all sorts of delays which makes people choose planes even for shorter distances under 500 km which would take ~2 hr on high speed train.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#43

Post by qaq »

concerned_user wrote: post #42
qaq wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me Europea…

I think you are wrong here, what you said is mostly about how it is in big cities versus the rural areas, same thing is in Europe. You will not find a lot of mass transit in European countryside, sure there are buses and trains probably more abundant than in USA but be prepared to walk a few kilometers to the nearest station. Your point would make sense if USA had high-speed trains linking big cities but it doesn't,…

Where did I say that it's about rural areas vs big cities ? In most US metro areas majority of people of people live in houses. In US people either drive or fly. There is good infra for long range driving. This has nothing to do with large cities vs rural areas for the most part.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#45

Post by throwaway_17426 »

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains?

It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming.

For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious.

Also, this is another step toward pervasive surveillance in the public sphere. Default-on all-angles video recording normalizes what infrastructure operators (and their third-party contractors) are allowed to learn about you, your work, and your life.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#46

Post by strken »

pmoriarty wrote: post #13

About 20 to 25 years ago, I took a trip from the US (where I'd lived most of my life) to travel around Europe by train, and I was immensely impressed by its far superior train system. The best trains of all the countries I visited were in Sweden, which had trains which were so modern that they seemed like something out of the future, even compared to the best trains I'd seen in the US by that time, Amtrak trains. The…

The impression I get from the US is that inter-city passenger rail is usually an afterthought tacked onto a massive freight network. You travel the same speed as whatever cargo is being transported, never mind that it takes longer and costs more than an equivalent bus route.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#47

Post by chrisseaton »

throwaway_17426 wrote: post #45

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

I think realistically that level of surveillance is going to be needed to keep people safe and accountable on public transport somewhere like the Bay Area where people are very vulnerable.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#48

Post by ben_jones »

throwaway_17426 wrote: post #45

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

No, with the rising amount of increasingly brazen crime on Bart (I just saw a photo yesterday from a mutual acquaintance who has his face smashed in over a laptop bag) they need to add more deterrence in the form of better fare gates, increased police presence, and very obvious surveillance mechanisms. I value privacy but of the many places it should take precedence, public transit in a dangerous city isn’t one of them.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#49

Post by scolby33 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #47
throwaway_17426 wrote: post #45

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

I think realistically that level of surveillance is going to be needed to keep people safe and accountable on public transport somewhere like the Bay Area where people are very vulnerable.

How are people in the Bay Area any more vulnerable than people anywhere else? I agree with the GP; this feels like oversurveillance and scares me.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#50

Post by chrisseaton »

scolby33 wrote: post #49
chrisseaton wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think realistically that level of surveillance is going to be needed to keep people safe and accountable on public transport somewhere like the Bay Area where people are very vulnerable.

How are people in the Bay Area any more vulnerable than people anywhere else? I agree with the GP; this feels like oversurveillance and scares me.

I mean people are vulnerable inside a sealed train carriage in a dense urban area with a lot of issues and crime. San Francisco is a leading low level crime location in the nation and there are assaults and robberies on the BART system.

> For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious.

I’m sure it’s merely obnoxious for you - but it’s there for people more vulnerable than you who get assaulted.

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