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In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

nytimes.com

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Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#41

Post by devoply »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #39
zelphirkalt wrote: post #18

This happens when other nations and unions stand by idly instead of immediately threaten sanctions against insane people like Bolsonaro. There needs to be so much pressure on the country, that they riot against people like him and rid themselves of people like him. The moment this guy talked about cutting down trees, other nations should have immediately threatened with heavy sanctions, to stop this thread right away…

Hard for USA to pressure with a nationalist right winger in power, same with Britain and many EU countries. So who exactly has the political will and clout to do anything?

It's bullshit anyway. I have this idea that Bezos should use his money from Amazon to buy a large chunk of the Amazon rain forest. I am sure right winger is happy to sell the land for slightly above the price of wood on it.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#42

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

throwawayr1188 wrote: post #40
Keyframe wrote: post #4

“The Amazon is ours, not yours,” he told a European journalist. I wonder if there's a scenario somewhere, already worked out, where this is not true anymore. A military takeover of the amazon basin.

The world needs less "well meaning" interventionists like you.

Does it? Why?

:crickets:

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#43

Post by woliveirajr »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #38
woliveirajr wrote: post #37

Everytime there are news about Brazil the threads get a simple political view with shallow arguments. I'm yet to see an article from nytimes and so on where they begin with basic and correct information instead of out-of-the-pocket made up numbers. Because numbers, in reality, are very different from this perspective that it's written. There isn't these increase in forests falling as this article implies.

Wow, pot calling the kettle black. You provided zero numbers yourself.

Yes, because I'm not discussing this article, I'm pointing that no one else is. A meta comment, if you prefer.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#44

Post by Dumblydorr »

dragonwriter wrote: post #34
airstrike wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even though the coup in brazil was caused exactly because the previous government, corrupt or otherwise, was denying american companies access to new oil reserves already Just want to point out to non-Brazilian HNers that this view is as fringe as UFO believers or hardcore Breitbart supporters. No one serious in the country is making these claims that sound more like outdated communism than real facts. To name one…

The US is concerned about oil supplies everywhere in the world, because the US economy is driven by oil prices and the US net oil self sufficiency (though it's not self-sufficient in the oil it actually uses) has only slight bearing on this, since prices are driven by global market conditions. Which is not to say that US interest in oil as the reason for the events at issue is a reasonable, evidence-supported belief.

Isn't it true the majority of oil used in the US is from the US now? We fell off in the 90s and 00s but I believe we are now amongst top producers again. I'm not happy about increased fossil fuel production but at least it takes some power from much less desirable hands like Saudis, Iran, Brazil, Venezuela, etc.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#45

Post by Dumblydorr »

andrenth wrote: post #17
dnewms wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Norway does: "Norway makes annual payments to Brazil as part of a long-term billion-dollar program to curb the loss of Amazon rainforest to slow global warming." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-brazil-amazon-idUS...

Why doesn’t Norway stop making use of all that fossil fuel they sit on?

What kind of question is that? What is your intention, I mean?

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#46

Post by hanniabu »

devoply wrote: post #41
Dumblydorr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard for USA to pressure with a nationalist right winger in power, same with Britain and many EU countries. So who exactly has the political will and clout to do anything?

It's bullshit anyway. I have this idea that Bezos should use his money from Amazon to buy a large chunk of the Amazon rain forest. I am sure right winger is happy to sell the land for slightly above the price of wood on it.

That's nice in theory, but unless there's surveillance it won't help. They'll ravage the land anyways if there's nobody there to protect it

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#47

Post by Dumblydorr »

chewbacha wrote: post #3

Things like this strike fear in my heart and make me feel helpless to prevent our species from dismantling our ecosystem until it can no longer support us.

We are in the thick of it. Shame that politics moves so slowly in so many countries, and that money and economics comes above long term ecosystem health. I think if we recognized we are merely a species from that ecosystem, part of its food chain, maybe we would react better.

Reminds me of a friend who has this pet desire that 1/2 of all humans should vanish, this was before Thanos too. He just hates what humans do and wants less of them.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#48

Post by devoply »

hanniabu wrote: post #46
devoply wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bullshit anyway. I have this idea that Bezos should use his money from Amazon to buy a large chunk of the Amazon rain forest. I am sure right winger is happy to sell the land for slightly above the price of wood on it.

That's nice in theory, but unless there's surveillance it won't help. They'll ravage the land anyways if there's nobody there to protect it

Hello Amazon drones?

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#49

Post by zaro »

forinti wrote: post #35
zaro wrote: post #25

It's a pity things are going in that direction. But i don't think we are in position to judge the Brazilians over this. I watched a short documentary about this issue recently on Youtube, and the journalists went to some really remote area and spoke with the mayor of town there. The guy was big supporter of Bolsonaro and he said something that is actually very true. He said US and Europe have no right to tell Brazil…

The thing is that the Amazon is not a good place for traditional agriculture. You can chop down the trees and grow crops for a couple of years and then you have to move on. We need a completely different approach to develop the Amazon.

That's true, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The whole world is going for the short term profit instead of sustainability.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#50

Post by the8472 »

Keyframe wrote: post #4

“The Amazon is ours, not yours,” he told a European journalist. I wonder if there's a scenario somewhere, already worked out, where this is not true anymore. A military takeover of the amazon basin.

A takeover seems messy. Wouldn't destroying infrastructure used by businesses that destroy the rainforest be sufficient? And if any country decided to do that wouldn't a military-enforced economic blockade to quench those exports be even less bloody and achieve the same?

Total war to save the planet is an interesting narrative, but it does not seem very efficient unless you have some cheap to deploy doomsday WMDs.

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