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The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

theatlantic.com

191–200 of 231 posts

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for explaining what you meant. However I don't quite see how your examples relate to the kind of fallacious reasoning in the example (that it is OK to steal from self-checkout stores because they're making you do work). This (the example) is not just bad reasoning; it seems to stem from moral deficiency, and one can be morally deficient with or without being a drug addict. Also, the specific mental issues you…

I don't disdain junkies. Addiction is a disease. I fault junkies for letting themselves get the disease, and they are a huge pain once they have it but, disdain? Why? I relayed my experiences with the people I basically grew up with- most of my friends when I was a teenager did drugs and by that I mean that they hardly did anything else. A few were honest-to-god junkies, who ended up in rehab and never really left, m…

The following is unrelated to our main discussion- a digression. Apologies, but your comment about disdain of junkies made me reminisce (also- it hurt my feelings, but OK, I'm a big girl) (I'm on a diet).

The first time someone tried to sell me heroin was when I was sixteen. I had gone for the first time to Exarchia Square, a place in Athens, Greece, were all the countercultural types gather. I had heard that all the punks and the anarchists gathered there and I wanted to meet some.

When I got there the place was empty so I sat on a bench and waited. At some point, this older dude came and sat next to me and started chatting me up. He started telling me about this thing called "paramytha" ("fairy-tale stuff") that people take to have a good time. He explained the name comes from the fact that it "makes you believe stuff" ("se paramythiazei"). I asked what this "paramytha" looked like and he described it as a powder, sometimes brown, sometimes yellow, sometimes grey, etc. So basically not only did he want to sell me heroin (I was 16, remember) he also wanted to sell me heroin cut with whatever dirty shit he had lying around (as normal).

Well, I wasn't buying. A while later an other older dude came and sat with me and told me to stay away from the other guy and the stuff he was trying to sell me. This dude, let's call him Dude B, told me that the "paramytha" was heroin, that it was a horrible disease that caused you to do the most degrading things to yourself and others. He told me that a grown man had once told him he gave someone a blowjob for money to get his "paramytha" (I'm guessing it was Dude B himself who did and that he did it many more times than one). I am not going to look down on a man (or woman) who gives blowjobs, or who gives blowjobs for money. But giving blowjobs to get money to spend on heroin that makes you give blowjobs for money is scraping the bottom of the lowest pit of degradation, in my book. Edit: but when you're addicted that's all par for the course.

So, no disdain. Sometimes pitty. Sometimes anger and frustration. Most of the time these days just a great big distance between myself and anyone who bears the marks.

I hope that is intersting to someone in this thread.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#192

I just chose not to use self-checkouts. If a store only has them I don't go there. It's easy and sends a clearer (and more clearly ethical) message.

Why don't you present your cart to the cashier and ask them to check you out. The process of paying is identical after all.

It's not quite the same if you pay for groceries with your own money (cash) instead of having some giant corp. promise to pay the grocer in a couple days (credit card).

Plus I wouldn't want to support any store that didn't have at least a couple real check-out lanes.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#193
post #158
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you use self checkout you’re avoiding waiting in a longer line for a cashier.

Only in the beginning, when self checkout stations are being introduced and most of the customers go to cashiers, out of habit. Thing is: even a person that does self-checkout quite often is still much slower than a cashier, who has 100x more practice. Also, when anything goes wrong with self-checkout you typically need to wait for someone to get to you and fix the issue - cashiers typically are able to fix their err…

Since self checkouts are cheaper to operate and take less space, it's compensated by there being more of them. Our supermarket replaced 2 checkout lanes with 6 self-checkouts in the same space with half the staff.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#194
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sams Club has a self-checkout phone app. Scan as you shop, tap to pay, and show the receipt at the door.

Wow, that takes customer tracking to a whole new level.

Tracking items you bought?

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim was big corporations get to rip off and exploit little people virtually at will, and your refutation was that they are punished (or at least get slapped in the wrist as evidenced), everything is at balance in the moral realm, and a hostile personal orientation against them is unwarranted. You've now updated your argument to Big Tech may be evil but that doesn't mean we should assume Big Grocery is too. That…

I'd started writing a longer reply, then thought "you know what, it's Sunday night here, I've just started drinking a really nice glass of wine and my partner is about to serve up the home-made pasta we've spent the past couple of hours preparing... life's too short for this" and wrote a low-effort reply. As your previous comment began with "your example is comical" didn't exactly make me feel like a good-faith effor…

Isn't life too short for spending several hours to make pasta lol lol

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disdain junkies. Addiction is a disease. I fault junkies for letting themselves get the disease, and they are a huge pain once they have it but, disdain? Why? I relayed my experiences with the people I basically grew up with- most of my friends when I was a teenager did drugs and by that I mean that they hardly did anything else. A few were honest-to-god junkies, who ended up in rehab and never really left, m…

The following is unrelated to our main discussion- a digression. Apologies, but your comment about disdain of junkies made me reminisce (also- it hurt my feelings, but OK, I'm a big girl) (I'm on a diet). The first time someone tried to sell me heroin was when I was sixteen. I had gone for the first time to Exarchia Square, a place in Athens, Greece, were all the countercultural types gather. I had heard that all the…

Another story- sorry.

I had a friend, called Mitsos, the Sailor (because he used to be a sailor). I first met him after he had come out of jail- I don't know what he was in for and I never asked. He had this way about him that you see in people who have been in jail and have taken it as a harsh lesson. Once they 're out, you look at them and they may be a bit scruffy, a bit uncouth, a bit down and out (because jail never lets you move on) but they are straight like a rod, figuratively speaking. I don't mean sexually. I mean they watch their own behaviour like a hawk watches prey. The slightest misstep can lead to trouble, you see, and trouble can only end in one place.

So, Mitsos, he was trying to get his life back on track. He was homeless for a while. He slept at the benches in the park where we all hung out. At some point I noticed that when this girl -I don't remember her name but she was from Brazil- so when she was around, Mitsos was more smiley, more polite and even better groomed than usual. One day I saw him, out of the corner of my eye, hand her an actual boucquet of flowers, all wrapped up in crispy plastic sheet with a huge big smile on his face.

Eventually, Mitsos shacked up with this girl and they were happy together. Unfortunately, one of Mitsos friends was a junkie. But he was Mitsos' friend, so the Brazilian girl let him into her house.

It pains me to remember what happened after. One day the Brazilian girl came home and found her house empty- Mitsos' junkie friend had sold everything off. For junk money, it goes without saying. It goes without saying that Mitsos and the Brazilian girl had a huge row and Mitsos ended up on the streets again.

But he didn't stop there. I lost him, for a while, then one day I was in Athens' central square, Omonoia square. Omonoia is where you go to buy heroin and I saw Mitsos standing in a corner with another guy and trying to shoot up with what looked to me like a syringe with a broken needle. I went over and talked to him but he didn't want to talk. He wasn't drugged yet, he was still trying to shoot. He was angry and desperate and, I think, ashamed that I had seen him like that. I stood and watched him for a while trying to insert the needle in his vein and all I could think of was how grotty that syringe was. I worried he might get an infection.

Do you understand what he was doing? Mitsos wasn't a junkie. He had junkie friends but he was clean. At Omonoia he wasn't trying to get high. He was committing suicide. I only figured it out a couple of weeks later, when I heard they had found him dead.

I've thought often that maybe I could have helped him- given him a place to stay, even though my folks would never have agreed. Anyway, it happened as it happened. Mitsos took a last shot to nowhere a day when I was with my other friends at the park and we were all happy and laughing and having fun enjoying each other's company.

At least I got to say goodbye.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#197

> Shopping can be quite boring because it’s such a routine, and this is a way to make the routine more interesting. Maybe there is an opportunity here to somehow make shopping or self-checkout more thrilling and thus reduce shoplifting. Maybe add some features from a slot machine and give random discount or free items. Gamify the checkout experience so people want to buy more.

Convenience stores here in Japan do that a lot - they'll have a campaign period where for every $10 you spend or so you get to pull a raffle ticket and might win a chocolate bar or can of beer on the spot. Not related to self-checkouts though (those haven't reached convenience stores yet, at least not outside of one or two enterprising franchisees)

Certain brands of vending machines will also do a slot machine routine - the price LED display will spin numbers and if you get 4 in a row you win a second drink (I've never won)

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#198
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that phrase is used a little more freely than it should be. It is wrong to imprison people against their will; yet we do it because those people do/will do wrong things. Two wrongs don't make a right in that case either, but we feel the second wrong is justified because of the first.

It's not wrong to imprison people against their will. It's part of the societal contract. Not imprisoning someone when you should is, however, wrong.

if, instead of saying "is, however, wrong" you say "is wrong, however" you can save a comma. Just some LFP offered in a kindly spirit.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd started writing a longer reply, then thought "you know what, it's Sunday night here, I've just started drinking a really nice glass of wine and my partner is about to serve up the home-made pasta we've spent the past couple of hours preparing... life's too short for this" and wrote a low-effort reply. As your previous comment began with "your example is comical" didn't exactly make me feel like a good-faith effor…

Isn't life too short for spending several hours to make pasta lol lol

I said couple, not several!

My partner is of half-Italian background, and today was the first time she used the chitarra [1] she recently received as a gift from her family.

So yep, making the dough, waiting for it to rise, making the sauce, then pushing the dough through the chitarra to make the spaghetti all takes a bit of time.

It's not an every-day thing, but as a couple's thing to do on a quiet Sunday afternoon, it was great.

And it tasted incredible. Worth every second.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_alla_chitarra

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying a double standard between people is in itself unethical; that is my entire point. We can all choose to live by Amazon's rules, where maximizing profit without regard to ethics is acceptable, or we can live by our conventional sense of morality (which is what I want.) But insofar as we hold ordinary people to a different standard than Amazon, we are behaving unethically. The shoplifting is not central to my p…

Your whole point hinges on the claim that Amazon routinely and deliberately acts fraudulently and is never held to account. But Amazon and companies like them are absolutely held accountable for legal breaches all the time. Here's just one recent example: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/05/... Companies are under constant scrutiny by various bodies and agents including regulators, consumer pr…

>It's a huge leap to argue that since some counterfeit goods have been sold via their platform, blatant theft from them or other companies is therefore justifiable, particularly when you don't mention that those counterfeit goods were sold by third parties, and that Amazon has a formal process to refund customers who have been sold counterfeit goods and to bar such sellers from their platform: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/201165970

You are giving Amazon a pass to engage in unethical behavior. Whether or not the products are sold from a third party is entirely irrelevant; Amazon is profiting from defrauding shoppers, plain and simple. And in spite of their meager penalties, they continue to do it. Why? Because they make money from it.

>We all learned as children that theft and dishonesty is wrong, because in families and societies alike, things quickly break down if it becomes widespread.

This is a platitude that people here are saying to make themselves look good. If they are not enforcing their morals among all members of our group equally, then I do not believe that they care about their system of ethics as much as they let on; they are virtue signalling.

There exist a different set of morals in our society depending on whether you run a business or not. Everyone decided to fixate on the shoplifting aspect of my comment and intentionally avoid the thrust of my point. I don't actually want people to shoplift; I am calling out the hypocrites who shrug at behavior like Amazon's then proceed to hop on a soapbox about shoplifting. It's disgusting.

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