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The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

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Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#101

Post by koolba »

elliekelly wrote: post #35
jedberg wrote: post #17

I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…

> I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. That you know of - there are plenty of errors that are entirely innocent. It wasn't even self-checkout but in college I went to Walmart to buy a new microwave for my sorority and it was so big we left it in the cart with the barcode up instead of putting it on the conveyor belt. I just a…

I’ve had this happen with a case of noodles checking out via cashier. It had a barcode on it, which was scanned, but later realized that it was a copy of the code on the individual boxes so ended up getting 24 for the price of one. Self checkout might have prevented that one as the weight sensor would have tripped.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#102

Post by leetcrew »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #86
leetcrew wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been to a store that gives a discount for self-checkout, but it probably does lower the overall cost of shopping there. there's very little that Walmart can do to differentiate itself from Target, so I would at least expect these kinds of businesses to be forced to pass a lot of the labor savings on to their customers. if you really hate ringing up your own groceries, there are plenty of higher end grocery…

It doesn't. It just increases their profit. What they charge is determined by different people in those organizations. Most vendors have cashiers in Mid-South. Walmart and Kroger are the ones adding lots of self-checkouts with Walmart being about charging less with low service and Kroger charging more with a bit more service. Dollar General and Aldi are cheapest with no self-checkout, but less cashiers. So, there's y…

> It doesn't. It just increases their profit.

this isn't a self-evident claim. if you have other large competitors who operate in the same market space (for walmart and target, large stores selling a mix of well-known brands and discount store brands), and there is a cost-cutting technique that's available to all participants, it's really hard to employ it and keep all the surplus for yourself. this is especially true if the customers don't like it. I realize this is a naive econ 101 argument, but this particular market is about as close to "perfect competition" as it gets. I personally couldn't tell the difference between target and walmart if you removed all the signs, but if one were noticeably cheaper or more convenient, I would go to that one every time. cost comparisons between walmart and aldi is not particularly convincing; they sell different assortments of products. by not selling such a wide assortment of well-known brands, aldi probably has a significantly more efficient supply chain.

> Meanwhile, a lot of companies are getting rid of their self-checkouts since there's tons of theft. They've probably lost more at some places than they saved on laid-off cashiers.

well this is certainly a confounding factor to my argument. if true, there aren't really any savings to pass on in the first place. maybe it's just a lose-lose for everyone involved.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#103

Post by DonHopkins »

whoopdedo wrote: post #100
DonHopkins wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The super market chain "Piggly Wiggly" was the first grocery store that gave customers baskets and let them wander around the aisles grabbing items off the shelves themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggly_Wiggly https://www.southernliving.com/culture/piggly-wiggly-history >Before Clarence Saunders opened his shop, anyone who needed groceries would hand their shopping list over to a clerk who would pluck the g…

Cute story. But it relies on Saunders having seen customers doing their own shopping prior to opening his store.

Or having an imagination.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#104

Post by ratsmack »

koolba wrote: post #99
aey wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe a corporation to be evil, then every possible act against them might be justifiable. This is a question of ethics. What is the right behavior to resist evil? For example, you could follow our own governments guide :) https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/...

So Amazon profiting from knockoffs means you can steal bananas from Kroger’s?

The problem seems to be a general lack of morals... regardless of some perceived justification.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#105

Post by RHSeeger »

optimiz3 wrote: post #88
SantalBlush wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't shoplift, but I'm appalled at the double standards that are often applied to consumers and workers compared with large companies. Amazon is selling counterfeit products to unwitting shoppers across the United States. Large firms like this do not subject themselves to any code of ethics like we do; there is only the risk of getting penalized. Yet their business models are reliant on us acting ethically. It is…

Two wrongs don't make a right. Trying to not leave the world a worse place at the end of the day means not taking extra fruit at the self-checkout.

I think that phrase is used a little more freely than it should be. It is wrong to imprison people against their will; yet we do it because those people do/will do wrong things. Two wrongs don't make a right in that case either, but we feel the second wrong is justified because of the first.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#106

Post by SantalBlush »

koolba wrote: post #99
aey wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe a corporation to be evil, then every possible act against them might be justifiable. This is a question of ethics. What is the right behavior to resist evil? For example, you could follow our own governments guide :) https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/...

So Amazon profiting from knockoffs means you can steal bananas from Kroger’s?

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices, is it ethical to hold a shoplifter accountable? The answer, in my mind, is that it is not only not ethical to do so, but it is grossly unethical to do so.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#107

Post by SubiculumCode »

Retail is a major source of employment in America for those without technical skills. The increase in automation at the checkstand are forcing people out of one of the few jobs they can get. I like automation, but we need to do something for the middle aged mom/dad who is not likely to ever be trained to be a coder or technician. It is time for a universal basic income. Or they could just thieve from the robots to make ends meet.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#108

Post by Sojuwa »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #26

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…

>stealing is immoral Can we chill with the lowkey racism? It's real privilege to not need to steal, to not have theft be a right of passage, to have the impulse control/foresight to not steal. It's kind of sick to say you're better than that, ignoring DNA privileges.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#109

Post by gizmo686 »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #86
leetcrew wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been to a store that gives a discount for self-checkout, but it probably does lower the overall cost of shopping there. there's very little that Walmart can do to differentiate itself from Target, so I would at least expect these kinds of businesses to be forced to pass a lot of the labor savings on to their customers. if you really hate ringing up your own groceries, there are plenty of higher end grocery…

It doesn't. It just increases their profit. What they charge is determined by different people in those organizations. Most vendors have cashiers in Mid-South. Walmart and Kroger are the ones adding lots of self-checkouts with Walmart being about charging less with low service and Kroger charging more with a bit more service. Dollar General and Aldi are cheapest with no self-checkout, but less cashiers. So, there's y…

Source? Grocery stores are a notoriously low-margin business.

When only one uses self checkout, that one sees increase profit. When everyone uses self-checkout, they lower prices to compete with each other; and not using self checkout becomes economically unviable unless you have something else to distinguish you from your competition.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#110

Post by brigandish »

SantalBlush wrote: post #106
koolba wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Amazon profiting from knockoffs means you can steal bananas from Kroger’s?

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices, is it ethical to hold a shoplifter accountable? The answer, in my mind, is that it is not only not ethical to do so, but it is grossly unethical to do so.

It's not fair but we shouldn't conflate the judgement of other's actions with choosing how we ourselves act.

If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices should I then steal? No. They've no relevance to each other, I am responsible for my actions.

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