The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#151

Post by lozenge » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #119

nickpsecurity wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source that retail companies follow economic theory versus profit maximization? In a capitalist system, companies try to maximize profit. They usually go into cartel or copycat mode doing the least they can to compete and increase profit. One thing many do is have a self-checkout to cut labor while otherwise running the same way. In the real world, that means the prices and level of service will be the…

These are publicly traded companies. We do not need to guess what they are doing. Walmart has a profit margin of 1.62% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/net-pr... Target: 3.96% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TGT/target/net-pro... BJs: 1.13% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BJ/bjs-wholesale-c... For reference: Alphabet: 19.71% https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOG/alpha…

Now McDonalds is a company which clearly is introducing self checkout to raise their margins, but I don't see any hand wringing about it on this thread.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#152

Post by H8crilA » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:34 AM UTC

_nhynes wrote: post #42

MarkSweep wrote: post #31

> Shopping can be quite boring because it’s such a routine, and this is a way to make the routine more interesting. Maybe there is an opportunity here to somehow make shopping or self-checkout more thrilling and thus reduce shoplifting. Maybe add some features from a slot machine and give random discount or free items. Gamify the checkout experience so people want to buy more.

My guess is that expected payout would be too low to keep opportunistic shoplifters from doing their thing since most self-checkouters who aren't stealing would also get the discount. Otherwise this is a great idea.

Lotto disagrees. In fact super rare wins make them perceived as so much more valuable (and so much more an object of envy if it happens so that your friend wins at the self checkout).

Precise measurements are needed, this would be a cool psychology project to work on in some big chain.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#153

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:43 AM UTC

swsieber wrote: post #129

ricardobeat wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it looks like in the US, but here in Europe it is often faster / more convenient to use the self-checkout. The lines are shorter, it's easier to bag everything, and it's easier to keep an eye on all the prices. Plus there are random inspections every now and then, and usually cameras on each machine. To top it off, they don't take cash, only debit cards, so it's very easy to find any wrongdoers. I w…

U.S. resident here: every where I've been the self check out mostly supports cash. Sometimes there will a machine or two in "card only" mode, presumably due to running out of bills/coins.

Machines that take cash require 10x the maintenance and are much more expensive.

Having some without even the ability to take cash is a cost saving measure.

If it looks like it could take cash but isn't right now it is probably jammed up or broken. This happens all the time.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#154

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:49 AM UTC

Zhenya wrote: post #76

randrews wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that may have happened to me accidentally once: a couple years ago I was sick and unable to sleep, so I went to a grocery store at about 1 AM to buy decongestants so I could maybe get some sleep. Most of the lights were off inside and I didn't see another person there, it was sort of creepy actually, but I figured, meh, 1 AM. I bought my pills with the self checkout and left. About a week later I was at the s…

Don't think that's possible. They have to open and close registers for accounting etc. Maybe someone was in the store and just had not yet closed down the checkouts.

There are a number of reasons to reopen a machine after end of day close including testing hardware. Also someone could have forgotten to close it out.

For a machine where all the cash is locked in or more likely emptied their is not much risk in that.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#155

Post by 1000units » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #136

SantalBlush wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying a double standard between people is in itself unethical; that is my entire point. We can all choose to live by Amazon's rules, where maximizing profit without regard to ethics is acceptable, or we can live by our conventional sense of morality (which is what I want.) But insofar as we hold ordinary people to a different standard than Amazon, we are behaving unethically. The shoplifting is not central to my p…

Your whole point hinges on the claim that Amazon routinely and deliberately acts fraudulently and is never held to account. But Amazon and companies like them are absolutely held accountable for legal breaches all the time. Here's just one recent example: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/05/... Companies are under constant scrutiny by various bodies and agents including regulators, consumer pr…

Your example is comical. By my reading, Amazon stole (and was ordered to return) $70 million from Americans by offering their children fake playmoney for their real money. Where are the punitive damages? $70 million is piss to Amazon.

Here's another comical example from recent:

Facebook is fined $5B for privacy violations. Their stock goes up for the day.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#156

Post by pantalaimon » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

koala_man wrote: post #21

jedberg wrote: post #17

I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…

I hope society will one day reach a level of honesty and trust where we can just leave stores unlocked and unattended at night.

It seems like China already has this

https://youtu.be/mc8htuhSyWE

https://youtu.be/0QKrHi-G9WQ

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#157

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:13 AM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #12

I wanted to checkout at a Home Depot but there were no employees to be seen and only self-checkout lanes open. I had some items I wanted help with and in frustration asked the customer next to me, "does anybody work here?" He said "I guess we do." I won't be the guy who causes shrinkage but it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

Home depot always has at least 3 people available to check you out no matter how late or dead it is.

A service desk associate. A cashier at the self check. A cashier at the exit opposite the service desk.

You ignored the actual cashier 30 seconds walk down towards either exit and didn't incline your head sufficiency to see the gal 30 feet away probably cleaning an adjacent checkout or stocking the adjacent cooler.

The labor cost of the 2 minutes scanning items is between 26c and 40c

Would you like that deducted from your bill?

You aren't paid to check yourself out because your labor isn't in service of the businesses needs its servicing your own needs to check out quicker rather than walk slightly further down.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#158

Post by mamon » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #94

markovbot wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same thing. Those services cost extra. If you go to the store and take home the things yourself, you're avoiding paying the extra fee for those services

And if you use self checkout you’re avoiding waiting in a longer line for a cashier.

Only in the beginning, when self checkout stations are being introduced and most of the customers go to cashiers, out of habit.

Thing is: even a person that does self-checkout quite often is still much slower than a cashier, who has 100x more practice. Also, when anything goes wrong with self-checkout you typically need to wait for someone to get to you and fix the issue - cashiers typically are able to fix their errors themselves.

So, in the end the lines will be longer, because of less skilled people doing the work.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#159

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:20 AM UTC

LocalH wrote: post #22

amayne wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's called lower prices – at least in theory. (My apologies for coming across as pedantic.) Physical stores use them to remain competitive in pricing. The lower price is your incentive for doing it yourself (again in theory.)

I'm not aware of any major stores that provide a self-checkout discount.

Probably because the labor cost involved in paying minimum wage employees is low and the cost of goods sold is high.

If you buy a $500 TV maybe the store paid 300 or 400 for the TV 10-20c to check it out for you.

How much discount do you expect to receive?

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#160

Post by michaelmrose » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #85

I just chose not to use self-checkouts. If a store only has them I don't go there. It's easy and sends a clearer (and more clearly ethical) message.

Why don't you present your cart to the cashier and ask them to check you out.

The process of paying is identical after all.