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Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

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Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#121

Post by dfawcus »

kgwgk wrote: post #97
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how. Ireland doesn't require ID either. You could visit Dublin on the ferry from England showing no papers other than your ferry ticket, bought for cash as you walked on to the boat, and I'm pretty sure vice versa. Even when there were the armed checkpoints between North and South. Did this quite a few times. I see no significant support for an "Iexit", so it can't be connected with ID, or a…

All the EU countries except for Denmark, Ireland and UK have identity cards. All the EU countries except for Ireland and UK are part of the Schengen Area (or are obliged to join in the future, for some recent members). It remains to be seen what Ireland status is once UK is out, depending on what kind of border is put in place between them. The trend in the EU is for more control (regarding IDs and in many other issu…

Ireland - yes and no.

The Irish Government like to deny it, but I'd argue that the "Public Services Card" (https://psc.gov.ie/) is a de-facto ID card (and hence central ID database).

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#122

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

camillomiller wrote: post #50

In Italy it’s quite common to go with Galileo Galilei, I would say we use name surname most of the time when we mention him. Maybe it has to do also with how it rolls out of the tongue nicely for us.

In Greek Galileo's whole name sounds funny. "Ο Γαλιλαίος Γαλιλέι" sounds a lot like a verb phrase, "Galileo is Galileing".

Although there is no verb "Galilei" in Greek it does sound like a weird way to say that "Someone is saying something in Gallic (French)".

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#123

Post by kragen »

Iv wrote: post #35
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has no requirement for ID. The old WW2 ID was abolished in the early 50s as an infringement of civil liberties. The idea being that a citizen can go about their lawful business without interruption unless suspected of something. IDs were being asked for by police and others as a matter of course rather than of suspicion. A passport or driving licence forms a de facto ID, but both of those are voluntary, and th…

> IDs were being asked for by police and others as a matter of course rather than of suspicion. Is the existence of an ID really the problem there? I like the idea that having to provide an ID is optional and the police can't force someone to comply without a good reason, but the existence of an UID for people seems really necessary in a lot of cases, to prove someone did not vote 10 times in an election, to track yo…

In places without any kind of unique ID, multiple voting is often prevented by dyeing your thumbnail after voting. This is sufficient to keep voter fraud down to insignificant levels. The UK commenter points out that a number specific to the voting process is also adequate to the purpose. Pension accounts can similarly be identified by numbers specific to the money in question, and in that case there's not even any requirement for being one to one—your pension contributions from different years can and possibly should be in separate, unlinked accounts. Certainly there is no benefit, and potentially enormous harm, in linking your pension to your voting.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#124

Post by bonoboTP »

henrikschroder wrote: post #85
aasasd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik a name was/is believed to have the power to summon a supernatural being that it identifies. God and the devil both have a dozen or more euphemisms. (I've also heard about a rather non-Christiany belief of ‘true names’ having command over some beings, but not sure that it's not a modern fantasy invention.) Dunno about material beings, but hiccups are believed in some places to be caused by someone remembering yo…

It was absolutely a thing, and the best example is that the old Indo-European word for bear is eradicated in Northern European languages, because it was thought that the true name of the animal would summon it, and bears were not something you wanted around. So instead of using the taboo name, everyone used the noa name for the animal, a euphemism, which is why "bear" actually means "the brown one". In Slavic languag…

Same in Hungarian (a Uralic language). Wolf is "farkas", lit. the tailed one, and deer is "szarvas", lit. the horned one. Both used to have true names but became taboo and got lost.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#125

Post by JasonFruit »

The interesting thing to me is that we call his father, a lutenist and composer, Vincenzo Galilei. Maybe there has to be an unbroken tradition of referring to the person at all; we've talked about Galileo nonstop for 500 years, but there were a few hundred years there where almost everyone had forgotten Vincenzo.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#127

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

Iv wrote: post #7
wtmt wrote: post #4

The insistence on a surname is quite annoying for people who don't have one or use one. In India, there are many cultures where a surname or family name isn't used or isn't passed down from one generation to another and to the next and so on. There are cultures where a surname is used. But what's very common across the country is addressing people by their first (or only) names whether or not one is close to them. Ev…

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

>> Jesus would have registered as "Jesus Bin Yoseph" to get a passport or an Amazon Prime account. His (hypothetical) children would have "Bin Jesus" as their family names.

More precisely, "Yeshua Bin Yoseph" and "Bin Yeshua" for his kids.

"Yeshua Bin Yoseph" most likely being an actual name of at least one individual living today (somebody from Israel).

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#128

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

kijin wrote: post #64
DoreenMichele wrote: post #42

I worked in insurance for over five years. One of the more common reasons we had to send out HIPAA notification letters was due to relatives in the same city with similar or identical names getting claims processed under the wrong policy. These were very often two male relatives -- father and son, twin brothers, cousins. They sometimes even lived on the same street. There's also this story about two women with the sa…

This really shouldn't be a problem in the modern age when each person can be assigned a globally (or at least nationally) unique ID number as soon as their birth certificate is produced. It baffles me that the most technologically advanced country in the world still has difficulties figuring out who has the right to vote.

Americans, correct me if I'm wrong but I've researched that left leaning people don't like the idea because minorities can't get documents easily because of distance or money, right leaning don't like federal government have the list and are a bit paranoid about it. Both reasons sound very weird to me.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#129

Post by [deleted] »

kgwgk wrote: post #97
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how. Ireland doesn't require ID either. You could visit Dublin on the ferry from England showing no papers other than your ferry ticket, bought for cash as you walked on to the boat, and I'm pretty sure vice versa. Even when there were the armed checkpoints between North and South. Did this quite a few times. I see no significant support for an "Iexit", so it can't be connected with ID, or a…

All the EU countries except for Denmark, Ireland and UK have identity cards. All the EU countries except for Ireland and UK are part of the Schengen Area (or are obliged to join in the future, for some recent members). It remains to be seen what Ireland status is once UK is out, depending on what kind of border is put in place between them. The trend in the EU is for more control (regarding IDs and in many other issu…

[deleted]

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#130

Post by Kipters »

klez wrote: post #65
DoreenMichele wrote: post #42

I worked in insurance for over five years. One of the more common reasons we had to send out HIPAA notification letters was due to relatives in the same city with similar or identical names getting claims processed under the wrong policy. These were very often two male relatives -- father and son, twin brothers, cousins. They sometimes even lived on the same street. There's also this story about two women with the sa…

Here in Italy we are given a Codice Fiscale at birth, which is a string of 13 characters derived by 3 letters of the last name, 3 letters of the first name (usually these 6 letters are all consonants, but there are exceptions for names like Anna), 2 digits, a letter and two other digits representing the birth day, one letter and the digits representing the birthplace an one last letter which is a checksum. These are…

It's worth mentioning that in case of ambiguity (people with the same name born the same day in the same city) the algorithm solves it by allowing the 7 numbers in the code to be replaced with letters, thus allowing up to 128 variations of the same fiscal code
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