The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#201

Post by tuxxy » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:33 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #200

elliekelly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought, this makes no sense. Why would the Patriot Act care more about who's getting a library card than incorporating when the dirty money is obviously flowing through the entity? And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. ID not just for the single corporator, but information about all of the offi…

And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. Only if the corporation has a US bank account. A Cayman Islands bank account, not so much. There's too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. In California, it is a criminal misdemeanor to ask for a credit card number on line before the actual name and address of th…

There is absolutely _not_ too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. If anything, there's not enough. The majority of them are likely used for lawful reasons. What an absurd, anti-privacy statement.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#202

Post by augustocallejas » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:37 AM UTC

phendrenad2 wrote: post #125

Interesting historical tidbit: Many libraries had very lax requirements for library cards pre-9/11. The PATRIOT Act forced them to collect more information. https://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000060501&fullsite=true

Ironic, since the Ad Council released commercials like these after 9/11 showing someone getting questioned after asking about a book in a library, and ending with "What if America wasn't America?":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgmBFb4jfjw

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#203

Post by pupdogg » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #128

dragonwriter wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would the Patriot Act care more about who's getting a library card than incorporating when the dirty money is obviously flowing through the entity? Because the Patriot Act was about using terrorism as a pretext to shove through an authoritarian wishlist, much of which and previously been pushed unsuccessfully on other bases (rooting out Communism, the Drug War, etc.), rather than a rational focussed response to…

SELECT * FROM PRIVATE_PERSONS WHERE CHECKOUT_BOOK IS LIKE "%Anarchist Cookbook%"

Why not push all these private_persons into a Redis set upon checkout? Anything to save another trip the real workhorse!

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#204

Post by riku_iki » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:44 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #200

elliekelly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought, this makes no sense. Why would the Patriot Act care more about who's getting a library card than incorporating when the dirty money is obviously flowing through the entity? And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. ID not just for the single corporator, but information about all of the offi…

And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. Only if the corporation has a US bank account. A Cayman Islands bank account, not so much. There's too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. In California, it is a criminal misdemeanor to ask for a credit card number on line before the actual name and address of th…

> In California, it is a criminal misdemeanor to ask for a credit card number on line before the actual name and address of the business has been given to the consumer. BPC § 17538. Useful to know if you have a dispute.

Interesting, never seen anybody doing this..

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#205

Post by masonic » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #138

bdcravens wrote: post #13

A library is loaning you property, usually collateral-free. A corporation is just a placeholder essentially for the activities it will perform, each of which will likely have far more stringent requirements than a library card.

A library is not loaning you property, it is a public good which you already paid for and have a right to use, the administrative overhead is for the convenience of all library users. A corporation's activities are unknowable but not being a real person it is not entitled to an assumption of good faith and there is no particular right to create new legal entities. We should definitely know who the beneficial owners o…

If you don't pay local taxes, you haven't paid for it.

You don't even need a library card to use materials as often as you want; you only need a card to remove materials.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#206

Post by ximus » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

tuxxy wrote: post #201

Animats wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. Only if the corporation has a US bank account. A Cayman Islands bank account, not so much. There's too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. In California, it is a criminal misdemeanor to ask for a credit card number on line before the actual name and address of th…

There is absolutely _not_ too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. If anything, there's not enough. The majority of them are likely used for lawful reasons. What an absurd, anti-privacy statement.

it's good to hear there are legitimate use cases. Care to share some examples? For me, and likely many others, the nefarious ones are the first that come to mind.

Assuming incorporation benefactor details would be kept private by the state, the only legit use-case I can think of is protection from politically motivated actions by public bodies.

Or is the fear that no list can truly be kept private, even by the state, and it would eventually be hacked or leaked, violating privacy?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#207

Post by erik_seaberg » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #63

jdoliner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think voting should be limited to citizens of the country? Or that each person should only get 1 vote? If so that seems impossible to implement without requiring identification, if not that seems tantamount to infringing on people's right to vote, if someone can vote twice against me while I only get 1 vote because I'm following the rules then that means my vote effectively wasn't counted.

Voting across the United States is registered, and voter registration requires identification. In Cook County, where I vote and election judge, voters are assigned to relatively small precincts, which track votes during the day on paper and electronic ledgers. If Judy Blue comes in and votes in the morning and you try to come in and vote for her later, you won't be able to check in. If the reverse happens, Judy makes…

The people who object to voter ID laws don't also object to voter registration ID laws? I thought they were worried about people who never had ID, but how would they register?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#208

Post by fastball » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #93

fastball wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In [current year], arguably every US citizen should have some form of photo ID. It's pretty useful for a lot more than just voting. For example, more and more banks / financial institutions are using automated systems + a picture of your photo ID in order to confirm your identity when opening up a bank account, etc. Seems like we should focus on making sure poor/minorities have easy/free access to IDs, rather than ke…

Great, do that, then require an ID to vote. The other way around is taking away peoples' fundamental rights.

Why not both at the same time?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#209

Post by pvg » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 6:03 AM UTC

erik_seaberg wrote: post #207

tptacek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting across the United States is registered, and voter registration requires identification. In Cook County, where I vote and election judge, voters are assigned to relatively small precincts, which track votes during the day on paper and electronic ledgers. If Judy Blue comes in and votes in the morning and you try to come in and vote for her later, you won't be able to check in. If the reverse happens, Judy makes…

The people who object to voter ID laws don't also object to voter registration ID laws? I thought they were worried about people who never had ID, but how would they register?

It varies widely by state but registration is typically not limited to 'show up at place X on day Y with a photo id in hand'.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#210

Post by mindslight » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 6:06 AM UTC

Based on the title, I thought this was going to be a hackeresque how-to style thing, distilling techniques that the rich use and getting them into the hands of every day people. But no, rather it's a call for legislation that will stifle less-moneyed actors, keeping the privilege reserved for the elite. The end result would undoubtedly contain a loophole akin to FACTA's directly-held art exemption.